FRPP Cooling Fan - M-8C607-MSVT

[cloud9]

I just ordered this fan and thought I'd start a thread on it. It will be helpful if we can get some track feedback to see if this helps out. Unfortunately since I just added the LTs it won't be a perfect back to back comparison, but I need all the help I can get keeping things cool. I paid $225 shipped.



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http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=23200

 

[PeteInCT]

I live through you vicariously you madman ... ;D

 

[Sesshomurai]

Gary, had you seen this radiator upgrade?



http://www.shopcapaldiracing.com/products/capaldi-racing-aluminum-radiator

I'll probably add this, that fan and the cooltech oil cooler by mid summer.

 

[YellowJacketBoss302]

Great price! Where did you get it?

 

[cloud9]

Gary, had you seen this radiator upgrade?



http://www.shopcapaldiracing.com/products/capaldi-racing-aluminum-radiator

I'll probably add this, that fan and the cooltech oil cooler by mid summer.

Already have it and then some:

https://trackmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=669.msg10086#msg10086

Boss 302S radiator
Boss 302S Tiger racing hood
Boss 302S grille
FRPP air-to-oil cooler

I have a feeling the '13 front end and hood redesign may have been influenced just a bit by those of us pushing the street cars to their limits a couple years ago paging JScheier

 

[cloud9]

Great price! Where did you get it?

https://trueblueracingparts.3dcartstores.com/2005-2013-MUSTANG-PERFORMANCE-COOLING-FAN_p_334.html
I just wanted to order it online and be done, but you could probably call any of your favorite FRPP suppliers and get it for a similar or even lower price.

 

[YellowJacketBoss302]

https://trueblueracingparts.3dcartstores.com/2005-2013-MUSTANG-PERFORMANCE-COOLING-FAN_p_334.html
I just wanted to order it online and be done, but you could probably call any of your favorite FRPP suppliers and get it for a similar or even lower price.

Thanks. You have given us a good contact and a good price to shoot for.

 

[cloud9]

I live through you vicariously you madman ... ;D

LOL well if I was at sea level like you I probably wouldn't even need it!

 

[Berol]

In for results/impressions...

 

[2012YellowBoss]

LOL well if I was at sea level like you I probably wouldn't even need it!

I will be installing this also but like you said it makes a big difference being 7 feet above sea level. Even during a 25-30 minute session the hottest readings are around 240-245, no gauge for oil temp, maybe in the future .....

With this and the condersor coming out I figure I will not need to add the extra oil cooler.

 

[cloud9]

Just got it. I won't get around to installing it until after Chuckwalla though. Those doors will definitely let more air flow to the radiator

 

[VoodooBoss]

Nice, I hope it helps with your cooling problems.

 

[cloud9]

I got it installed this afternoon while listening to Daytona. In my case of course it had to be a PITA! I think if you have the stock radiator the install would probably be about a half hour. I managed to stretch it to almost 3 hours. I didn't take any pics since like I said it would be a lot easier if you don't have the thicker 302S radiator. It would also be easier if you were flushing coolant at the same time, but since my motor was just out they flushed the coolant and I didn't want to drain the system.

1) Siphon the fluid out of the overflow reservoir with a turkey baster.
2) Remove driver side PCV hose
3) Remove pass side PCV hose and oil seperator (if applicable)
4) Disconnect the MAF sensor, remove intake tube by loosening hose clamp at the intake and closed air box and set in the engine bay.
5) Disconnect small hoses at top right and back of intake and raise up (I hooked to bungee to the prop rod)
6) Remove two 8mm bolts from reservoir and lift back out of the way on pass side of intake.
7) Disconnect large upper radiator hose on pass side and stuff a rag in there lol.
8) Disconntect (remove U-clip) other end of large radiator hose going to the block and shove another rag in there.
9) Remove two 10mm bolts holding fan shroud to radiator.
10) Unplug electrical connector on passenger side of fan shroud.
11) Wiggle, tilt and work shroud out of there. The flanges where you bolt it to the radiator need to clear the hose connections on the radiator and there's another one in the middle of the shroud on the passenger side that needs to get by the A/C lines.
12) Slide the new fan in place and install two 10mm bolts and reconnect electrical connection.
13) Wipe up the mess from the coolant you spilled doing this
14) Reconnect the radiator hose.
15) Reconnect the overflow tank with two bolts and reconnect the two hoses.
16) Reconnect PCV hoses.
17) Reconnect intake and MAF sensor.
18) Refill the reservoir to the cold fill line.
19) Start car and let warm up to open thermostat and eventually fire the fan.
20) Top off coolant/distilled water as necessary. I ended up losing about a pint during the whole process.

My fan came on at ECT of 201*. It really makes me wonder what reading we're getting from OBDII. I have to believe it's really CHT and our true water temp is significantly below that. I would think the fan is supposed to come on in the 170* or 180* range. I will say that the fan really seemed to be kicking out the air. I don't remember the stock fan pushing that much air but I don't remember really sitting there with my head in the engine bay checking it either.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Thanks for the instructions. I have my Aeroforce gauge setup to show both ECT and CHT. My CHT runs 8-10 degrees hotter. I think the ECT might be derived from CHT but that's just a guess.

 

[KBBOSS1086]

Thanks for the instructions. I have my Aeroforce gauge setup to show both ECT and CHT. My CHT runs 8-10 degrees hotter. I think the ECT might be derived from CHT but that's just a guess.

I met Mike (BMO member 06mach1) at the Glen last year. He is a mechanic by trade and had installed a seperate ECT guage with a sensor rather than using an aeroforce. I asked him about temperatures as I had been seeing some higher numbers on my aeroforce. He explained to me that that the OBDII does not directly read the ECT temp and that it's calculated, as you mentioned, based on the CHT. He went on to say that the actual readings he received seemed much lower than the stock dummy guage implied. (i.e. his dummy gaurge would be up there but the actual ECT would not be anywhere high enough to cause concern). Since both the aeroforce readings and dummy guage readings come from the OBDII it would not be hard to believe that the caluclation used to determine ECT was conservative. With Gary's findings of when the fan turned on and what Mike told me it leads me to believe that that the actual ECT is significanlty lowere that what is shown on an aeroforce guage.

Also, based on the fact that Ford added the CHT readings on the 2013's, it makes me think that it's likely the most important temp number to keep an eye on.

Mike - if you're out there and I got anything wrong, please chime in.

 

[cloud9]

I met Mike (BMO member 06mach1) at the Glen last year. He is a mechanic by trade and had installed a seperate ECT guage with a sensor rather than using an aeroforce. I asked him about temperatures as I had been seeing some higher numbers on my aeroforce. He explained to me that that the OBDII does not directly read the ECT temp and that it's calculated, as you mentioned, based on the CHT. He went on to say that the actual readings he received seemed much lower than the stock dummy guage implied. (i.e. his dummy gaurge would be up there but the actual ECT would not be anywhere high enough to cause concern). Since both the aeroforce readings and dummy guage readings come from the OBDII it would not be hard to believe that the caluclation used to determine ECT was conservative. With Gary's findings of when the fan turned on and what Mike told me it leads me to believe that that the actual ECT is significanlty lowere that what is shown on an aeroforce guage.

Also, based on the fact that Ford added the CHT readings on the 2013's, it makes me think that it's likely the most important temp number to keep an eye on.

Mike - if you're out there and I got anything wrong, please chime in.

Sean thanks for that info. I feel a little better about things now knowing that I'm probably not running quite as hot as I thought. Unfortunately I'm really flying blind. I know the car has gotten pretty hot in the past since I've had the overflow all the way to the top of the reservoir and did hit limp mode on my first track day. I haven't hit limp mode nor cooked the fluid to that level since all of my cooling mods, but have had the dummy gauge pegged, lit the coolant warning lamp and saw "coolant" temps in the low 250s on my Aeroforce several times. My cooling improvements include the 302S radiator, grille, hood and air-to-oil cooler. Since my oil temps seem to peak in the 230s or low 240s on the hottest days it seems like the oil's under control, which would imply that the water's also not at the limit.

Do you know where Mike installed the sensor to get true water temps? I'm not sure how you guys are getting CHT and ECT on your Aeroforce gauges. I am using "Platform 4" and I can select "Coolant" which gives me the reading I've been watching, and "Head Temp" which doesn't give me a reading (it just displays whatever value the previous parameter read). I wonder if I have an older version of the software on my gauge than some of you.

 

[KBBOSS1086]

Gary - 250+ on the aeroforce is definitely getting up there and with the coolant light and dummy guage reading you had before the mods I would have started to improve cooling too. I think Ford was very conservative when the programmed the limp mode parameters (whether it's cooling, misfires, etc). It's better to be safe than sorry though. I have the 302S grille and 240 is the most I've seen on the aeroforce - even in the mid 90's at Watkns Glen, pushing it close to the rev limiter nearly every shift (needless to say, but I run my car pretty hard at the track).

My aeroforce show's "coolant" too - I'm assuming that ECT (Engine Cooolant Temp) is the same. As for the CHT, It doesn't work on mine either - it does the same thing your's does. I think we got them around the same time as I recall talking to you about the installation. Unless Ford changed something in the programming from 2012 to 13 CHT should be supported by OBDII. I double checked the aeroforce user manual and it does say that Cylinder Head Temp is supported but I didn't find anything about updating our guage's. ????

As for the location of the cooling sensor, it was a while ago but I think Mike said there was a plug in the head (maybe left front???) that could be removed and replaced with a sensor.

With the mod's you've done to your cooling system (regardless of the aeroforce readouts) I think you've got the coolest Boss of them all (pun intended). You should be good to hammer on her all day!

 

[cloud9]

Gary - 250+ on the aeroforce is definitely getting up there and with the coolant light and dummy guage reading you had before the mods I would have started to improve cooling too. I think Ford was very conservative when the programmed the limp mode parameters (whether it's cooling, misfires, etc). It's better to be safe than sorry though. I have the 302S grille and 240 is the most I've seen on the aeroforce - even in the mid 90's at Watkns Glen, pushing it close to the rev limiter nearly every shift (needless to say, but I run my car pretty hard at the track).

My aeroforce show's "coolant" too - I'm assuming that ECT (Engine Cooolant Temp) is the same. As for the CHT, It doesn't work on mine either - it does the same thing your's does. I think we got them around the same time as I recall talking to you about the installation. Unless Ford changed something in the programming from 2012 to 13 CHT should be supported by OBDII. I double checked the aeroforce user manual and it does say that Cylinder Head Temp is supported but I didn't find anything about updating our guage's. ????

As for the location of the cooling sensor, it was a while ago but I think Mike said there was a plug in the head (maybe left front???) that could be removed and replaced with a sensor.

With the mod's you've done to your cooling system (regardless of the aeroforce readouts) I think you've got the coolest Boss of them all (pun intended). You should be good to hammer on her all day!

LOL thanks Sean. I do plan to just hammer down more and worry less about it. I carry extra rad caps and figure I'll go until I pop one. I am glad I've gotten all the cooling mods done though as heat's an engine's enemy no doubt. I'll be curious to see if the LT's and new mid-pipe will have any effect on temps. I'd think letting the exhaust out easier would have to help some.

 

[Sesshomurai]

Temps exceeding 250-260+ will destroy the motor in short order.

I have a homemade 302s grill and heat extractors on my hood and run WOT for 30 minutes. Highest temp I see is 208.

 

[Boss_302]

Temps exceeding 250-260+ will destroy the motor in short order.

This was posted as I was typing, see How does it all work? and Safe Cooling Strategy further down in my post.

FYI.......

The ’12-’13 Boss 302s do not have an Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor.

What they do have is a Cylinder Head Temperature (CHT) Sensor.

ECT is inferred from CHT

Where is the HCT?

- It is mounted into the wall of the cylinder head and measures the temperature of the metal and is not connected to any coolant passages.

How does it work?

- Cylinder Head Temperature (CHT) Sensor

The CHT sensor is a thermistor device in which resistance changes with the temperature. The electrical resistance of a thermistor decreases as temperature increases, and the resistance increases as the temperature decreases. The varying resistance affects the voltage drop across the sensor terminals and provides electrical signals to the PCM corresponding to temperature.

Thermistor-type sensors are considered passive sensors. A passive sensor is connected to a voltage divider network so varying the resistance of the passive sensor causes a variation in total current flow. Voltage that is dropped across a fixed resistor (pull-up resistor) in series with the sensor resistor determines the voltage signal at the PCM. This voltage signal is equal to the reference voltage minus the voltage drop across the fixed resistor.

The CHT sensor is installed in the cylinder head and measures the metal temperature. The CHT sensor provides complete engine temperature information and is used to infer coolant temperature. If the CHT sensor conveys an overheating condition to the PCM, the PCM initiates a fail-safe cooling strategy based on information from the CHT sensor. A cooling system concern, such as low coolant or coolant loss, could cause an overheating condition. As a result, damage to major engine components could occur. Using both the CHT sensor and fail-safe cooling strategy, the PCM prevents damage by allowing air cooling of the engine and limp home capability. For additional information, refer to Powertrain Control Software for Fail-Safe Cooling Strategy in this section.

Note: If the CHT sensor is removed from the cylinder head for any reason it must be replaced with a new sensor.

Some codes you might see;

DTC Description
P1285 Cylinder Head Overtemperature Condition
P1299 Cylinder Head Overtemperature Protection Active

How does it all work? This is for the 4.6L and the 5.4L I couldn't locate this in the new manual........but it should be the same, or close to it.

The CHT sends the PCM a signal indicating cylinder head temperature.

- If the temperature exceeds 121°C (250°F) (4.6L [3V] only)/176°C (348°F) (5.4L [4V] only), The PMC will disable half of the fuel injectors. The PCM will alternate which fuel injectors are disabled every 32 engine cycles. The cylinders not getting fuel injected act as air pumps to aid in engine cooling.

- If the temperature exceeds 166 degrees C (330 degrees F) (4.6L [3V] only)/260 degrees C
(500 degrees F) (5.4L [4V] only), the PCM disables all of the fuel injectors until temperature drops below approximately 154 degrees C (310 degrees F) (4.6L [3V] only)/164 degrees C (328 degrees F) (5.4L[4V] only).

- The coolant temperature gauge pointer will read fully hot.

More info…………………

Safe Cooling Strategy

Only vehicles that have a cylinder head temperature (CHT) sensor will have the fail-safe cooling strategy. This strategy is activated by the PCM only in the event that an overheating condition has been identified. This strategy provides engine temperature control when the cylinder head temperature exceeds certain limits. The cylinder head temperature is measured by the CHT sensor. For additional information, refer to PCM Inputs for a description of the CHT sensor.

A cooling system failure such as low coolant or coolant loss could cause an overheating condition. As a result, damage to major engine components could occur. Along with a CHT sensor, a special cooling strategy is used to prevent damage by allowing air cooling of the engine. The vehicle can be safely driven for a short time with some loss of performance.

Engine temperature is controlled by varying and alternating the number of disabled fuel injectors. This allows all cylinders to cool. When the fuel injectors are disabled, their respective cylinders work as air pumps, and this air is used to cool the cylinders. The more fuel injectors that are disabled, the cooler the engine runs, but the engine has less power.

Note: A wide open throttle (WOT) delay is incorporated if the CHT temperature is exceeded during WOT operation. At WOT, the injectors will function for a limited amount of time allowing the customer to complete a passing maneuver.

Before injectors are disabled, the fail-safe cooling strategy alerts the customer to a cooling system problem by moving the instrument cluster temperature gauge to the hot zone. Depending on the vehicle, other indicators, such as an audible chime or warning lamp, can be used to alert the customer of fail-safe cooling. If overheating continues, the strategy begins to disable the fuel injectors, a DTC is stored in the PCM memory, and a malfunction indicator light (MIL) (either CHECK ENGINE or SERVICE ENGINE SOON), comes on. If the overheating condition continues and a critical temperature is reached, all fuel injectors are turned off and the engine is disabled.