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Functional Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R?

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Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

everyone should know that your dealer has a specific allocation for 'r's versus standard gt350's...be clear with your dealer or you may be waiting for a car that they'll never get. the dealer I'm working with is only getting one R and he's a sizeable dealer.
 

302 Hi Pro

Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
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Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

fuhrius said:
everyone should know that your dealer has a specific allocation for 'r's versus standard gt350's...be clear with your dealer or you may be waiting for a car that they'll never get. the dealer I'm working with is only getting one R and he's a sizeable dealer.

Good point, and suspect that Texas and California Ford Retailers will get a decent slice of the R pie. Do we know any specifics on the 2016 GT350 R build quantity?

Thanks,
Dave
 
Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

I'm trying to not learn to much about these as they are obviously an upgrade from my LS and my checkbook can't handle that right now.

Picking up a GT350 in 2-3 years might be an option.
 
Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

every dealer who signs up gets one. after that, it's share of nation mustang-only sales. the larger-volume mustang stores, irrespective of location, get more than the small-volume mustang stores.
I don't know specifics beyond what my individual dealer is getting...but I think to rough math suggest they're be build in Boss LS quantities...and I suspect more base GT350's than base bosses.
 
Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

NFSBOSS said:
So what does this mean?

I'm pulling out all the stops trying to determine what's different but I'm coming up blank. I know a few of you are looking for this info in order to determine if you should order the R or not, which could mean waiting a long time to get one, so if anyone has any info please share.

The stabar has shorter arms on the R bar rear. Both are 22.2x3.9 tubes but the R car ran best in the short hole vs. the Perf. pack ran best in the middle hole. we got rid of the holes for production obviously so the R rear bar has slightly shorter arms.

If you swap the rear stabar for a new one (once you get rid of the mag ride heavy weight stuff and put in some race coilovers) get a soft bar with a lot of holes, that's all you need. Those holes are great for tuning.
 
Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

twistedneck said:
The stabar has shorter arms on the R bar rear. Both are 22.2x3.9 tubes but the R car ran best in the short hole vs. the Perf. pack ran best in the middle hole. we got rid of the holes for production obviously so the R rear bar has slightly shorter arms.
I'm not following your dimensions above. Can you please elaborate?

twistedneck said:
If you swap the rear stabar for a new one (once you get rid of the mag ride heavy weight stuff and put in some race coilovers) get a soft bar with a lot of holes, that's all you need. Those holes are great for tuning.
How heavy is the MR suspension compared to a good coilover setup? I'm under the impression that swapping out the MR is not going to be an easy task. With all the electronics is it even possible without throwing a hundred codes and having the car go into spasm's?

Note GM's heavy use of MR suspension yet they left it off the Z/28. I'm sure there was a good reason for that.
 
Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

The below quote is from MT article posted in the link below.

https://trackmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=9581.0

"Finally, and perhaps most important, this will be the first Mustang to utilize MagneRide magnetorheological shock absorbers, and the vehicle dynamics team leveraged the 7-millisecond damping-alteration capabilities of these wonder shocks to go lighter/less aggressive on the anti-roll bars. It should also be noted that most of the suspension calibrations, bushing durometers, and so forth are slightly stiffer still on GT350R models, which will also likely ride slightly lower than the GT350, which also rides lower than the GT Perf Pack. The MR shocks are also unique, with the internal piston orifices smaller on the R. The ride modes offered include Tour, Sport, Track, Weather, and Drag. That last one loosens everything up a lot to encourage as much rearward weight shift as possible during a hard launch then gets ready to stiffen things up for the first-second shift, so as not to get squirrely. Track is also optimized to behave well on FIA curbing. Some modes allow further individual tailoring of steering feel and stability-control thresholds."

And from the C&D article posted in the same thread:

"The springs and shocks were totally recalibrated for both GT350 versions. The R model gets the third-generation MagneRide suspension, the first Ford application for this technology, which uses magnetorheological fluid to almost instantaneously change shock-fluid viscosity and thus can update damping forces every 7 milliseconds. Eric Zinkoski, GT350 suspension tech specialist, says that the system delivers the expected track-capable handling on the GT350R, while also providing a surprisingly comfortable ride on the road."
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Re: Differences Between GT350 Track Pack and GT350R Suspension?

That's the C&D info I was talking about earlier. I'm thinking it still doesn't 'trump' the info directly from ford that says the R's have 'All Track Pack Content' and the only listed difference is the "Unique Chassis Tuning" as you mention in the OP.

Magazine info is almost never more accurate than info directly from Ford. Questions in an interview can be misunderstood, as well as the verbal answers from Ford employees.
 
Moto said:
Motortrend issue on May 5th-chassis first look:
"It should also be noted that most of the suspension calibrations, bushing durometers, and so forth are slightly stiffer still on GT350R models, which will also likely ride slightly lower than the GT350, which also rides lower than the GT Perf Pack. The MR shocks are also unique, with the internal piston orifices smaller on the R."
I have some more info on this and can clarify the above to some degree.

Suspension Differences:

The "internal piston orifices" aren't like a typical damper stack. The MRC dampers use a slot gap and it is smaller on the R than the non R dampers. The programming is different and the front dampers on the R use 1/2" shorter and stiffer springs. The R has 240 lb and track pack has 194 lb springs. The tires are different as well and are part of the tuned suspension. I could not find any info on bushings and I suspect they are the same. The sway bars and rear springs are the same. The vehicle dynamics module or VDM has a different program on the R and the whole system is not easily moved to a non R. Not impossible but good luck trying.

Tires and wheels:

The R uses the PSC2 tires which have larger tread blocks on the outside of the tire. They are obviously softer and are specifically designed for the R. You will need a special part number when ordering from tire rack. The tires were looked at as a integral part of the suspension tuning and lots of time was spent tuning the suspension with these tires. Installing the R's PSC2 tires on the TP will gain back approximately 2 seconds a lap on a typical track. This obviously varies greatly by length and speed of the track.

Obviously the wheels on the R are lighter and about 13 pounds a wheel lighter than the non R. They will be hard to match unless you buy a set. Installing lighter wheels on the TP will negate a lot of this and putting the same wheels on the R will neutralize the difference. Regardless the suspension is tuned for those wheels and tires.

Additionally the R tires are shorter by 1" which lowers the gearing on the car and helps with lower lap times. This also lowers the front of the car and combined with the shorter springs bring the R about 1" lower in front then the non R.

Aero:


The wing and splitter on the R are larger and provide more downforce. They were tested in a wind tunnel for effectiveness but I did not get any numbers.

Additionally the smaller grille opening on the R is for aero and not for the lack of an AC condenser. The same opening is on the R electronics package. I'm not sure if this is worth installing on a TP but if Ford put it on the R it's for a reason so it might be an upgrade worth considering.

Exhaust:

The R has resonator delete which probably adds a couple of HP.

Besides the cosmetic differences that's about it. Unless I forgot something which I probably did. ::)
 
VooDooBOSS said:
I have some more info on this and can clarify the above to some degree.

Suspension Differences:

The "internal piston orifices" aren't like a typical damper stack. The MRC dampers use a slot gap and it is smaller on the R than the non R dampers. The programming is different and the front dampers on the R use 1/2" shorter and stiffer springs. The tires are different as well and are part of the tuned suspension. I could not find any info on bushings and I suspect they are the same. The sway bars and rear springs are the same. The vehicle dynamics module or VDM has a different program on the R and the whole system is not easily moved to a non R. Not impossible but good luck trying.

Tires and wheels:

The R uses the PSC2 tires which have larger tread blocks on the outside of the tire. They are obviously softer and are specifically designed for the R. You will need a special part number when ordering from tire rack. The tires were looked at as a integral part of the suspension tuning and lots of time was spent tuning the suspension with these tires. Installing the R's PSC2 tires on the TP will gain back approximately 2 seconds a lap on a typical track. This obviously varies greatly by length and speed of the track.

Obviously the wheels on the R are lighter and about 13 pounds a wheel lighter than the non R. They will be hard to match unless you buy a set. Installing lighter wheels on the TP will negate a lot of this and putting the same wheels on the R will neutralize the difference. Regardless the suspension is tuned for those wheels and tires.

Additionally the R wheels are shorter by 1" which lowers the gearing on the car and helps with lower lap times. This also lowers the front of the car and combined with the shorter springs bring the R about 1" lower in front then the non R.

Aero:


The wing and splitter on the R are larger and provide more downforce. They were tested in a wind tunnel for effectiveness but I did not get any numbers.

Additionally the smaller grille opening on the R is for aero and not for the lack of an AC condenser. The same opening is on the R electronics package. I'm not sure if this is worth installing on a TP but if Ford put it on the R it's for a reason so it might be an upgrade worth considering.

Exhaust:

The R has resonator delete which probably adds a couple of HP.

Besides the cosmetic differences that's about it. Unless I forgot something which I probably did. ::)

Thanks for the info. This comment has been made many times already...by me and others...but I'll say it again: this car appears to me to be so well-though out and it's performance seems to rely heavily on the interdependence of many different pieces, that it's going to be hard to mod and improve this car. Mod it? yes. improve it? I don't know. Especially if you're like me, wherein you'll be driving it to the track (versus trailering it). My plan remains: step 1) add safety equipment. step 2) go to track.
 
fuhrius said:
Thanks for the info. This comment has been made many times already...by me and others...but I'll say it again: this car appears to me to be so well-though out and it's performance seems to rely heavily on the interdependence of many different pieces, that it's going to be hard to mod and improve this car. Mod it? yes. improve it? I don't know. Especially if you're like me, wherein you'll be driving it to the track (versus trailering it). My plan remains: step 1) add safety equipment. step 2) go to track.
Yep. For me it will be 1 safety equipment 2 add R tires and aero 3 go to the track.
 

ufnavy06

Some say he has a tattoo of his face on his face.
A random question on the technology package 350. Are it's seats still Recaros just with a leather cover it does the heated/cooled aspect of them remove the Recaros in favor of the standard Mustang seat?
 

ufnavy06

Some say he has a tattoo of his face on his face.
VooDooBOSS said:
I do not believe they have Recaro seats. They use the stock Mustang seats with leather.

I see your son there. That's kinda lame because even the FiST and FoST have Recaros. That technology package on the east coast will be tempting simply because of the air conditioned seats. But on the track, not so much.
 
I found another difference between the two on the rear suspension. See the highlighted comment below about 8mm shorter arms. Anyone have any idea what that does? Does that make the RSB slightly stiffer or softer?

@cloud9 @Grant 302 @ArizonaBOSS

GT350
Front stabilizer bar
34mm DIA x 5.7mm wall (1.34 x 0.22 in)
GT350R
34mm DIA x 5.7mm wall (1.34 x 0.22 in)
GT350
Rear stabilizer bar
22.2mm DIA x 3.9mm wall (0.87 x 0.15 in)
GT350R
22.2mm DIA x 3.9mm wall (0.87 x 0.15 in )
with 8mm (0.31 in) shorter arms than
GT350
 

302 Hi Pro

Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
2,009
441
Southeast
06mach1 said:
Shorter arm length should make it stiffer. It takes away the leverage.

Yes, maybe and perhaps less travel? The GT350 TP is shaping up to be quite the value isn't it?

I know that it was stated by the Ford Engineer, just take it to the track and drive it, (with out mods), but I suspect many here will mod their new GT350's, (both TP and R models), so my next question would be. . . .

What are the Functional Differences between the new GT350R and the GT350R-C?

Now that would be a "Mod or Not To Mod" discussion. (Bet those little upgrades will be expensive!)

In my opinion, of course. LOL

Dave
302 Hi Pro
 
302 Hi Pro said:
Yes, maybe and perhaps less travel? The GT350 TP is shaping up to be quite the value isn't it?

I know that it was stated by the Ford Engineer, just take it to the track and drive it, (with out mods), but I suspect many here will mod their new GT350's, (both TP and R models), so my next question would be. . . .

What are the Functional Differences between the new GT350R and the GT350R-C?

Now that would be a "Mod or Not To Mod" discussion. (Bet those little upgrades will be expensive!)

In my opinion, of course. LOL

Dave
302 Hi Pro
There are huge differences between the street and race cars. Just to name a couple the R-C has a dry sump motor and Multimatic DSSV dampers.

I've already started a mod list but it's pretty short and mostly cosmetic stuff like window tinting, clear bra and hood struts. Other than track tires and wheels, the aero wing and splitter the only suspension change I'm contemplating is running the R front springs if there is too much front brake dive. Cloud9 and I are flipping coins as to who's going to try that first. ;D It would be inexpensive and easy to do when camber plates are installed and easily undone if you don't like it. Also a slightly softer RSB if I decide to run square tires which I might do. I'm planning on buying the R's PSC2 tires but I'm having a hard time swallowing that one when Nitto NT01's are almost $1K a set cheaper.
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
8,730
2,734
Arizona, USA
Shorter arm length on the RSB indicates stiffer as 06Mach1 pointed out. Considering they are the same tube diameter and wall thickness, this is probably a good way to keep manufacturing costs down by using the same base component for each car and then modifying at the very end of manufacturing of the RSBs, as opposed to having multiple thicknesses and diameters of bars available.
 

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