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OLOABoss said:
Scott

Talk to Andie at Cobalt Friction in Coral Springs, FL. I run them on the GT3 with awesome wear over 10 track days and counting. I got a set of XR1 front and XR2 rear for the Boss and they have been great so far.

Re your oversteer now without the Nannies you are running 275/18 square set up now correct. If so you probably need either a stiffer front bar or softer rear bar to balance the car. The Advance Track being on before was probably covering up some of this with the electronics.

Peter
Yes, I am running the take-off squared. Most of the oversteer is driver induced so I am not too worried. When I spun at 16 I was driving in the rear-view and was off line and too fast etc. Set the rear dampers to 2 and still have the fronts on 5, you can dial out some of the oversteer that way. I did order the P springs, sway bars, control arms - everything but the dampers. It really is amazing how well the AdvancedTrac works, it covered up quite a few of my mistakes but it is fun learning to drive this way even if it is a little scary at times.

How many days do you think we can get Boss with these pads given 2 2.5 hours a day? So far the best wear I have seen is with the PFC's. One thing I have not seen is people posting how long a pad lasts. Like I said the ST43's worked well but wore out way too fast for the money. I would like to try the Carbotechs at some point but want to give the 01's or 08's a try next.
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
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Pagid RS-29 guys. Trust me for one set, you"ll see. If they use these for the 24 hr of LeMsns you would deduce they have excellent wear characteristics.
 
emcrace said:
I am an vintage racer and Boss owner second. I have tracked the car once for only a few laps. But I do have insite to what the over heat problem may be.
On a great many production cars turned race car a problem of over heat arises. This problem is almost always attacked by spending gobs of money improving cooling hardware and misteriously the problem often gets worse.
Over heat can be caused by inadiquate radiator( not on our car), /to small intake ( not on our car,you forgot the huge lower opening), under hood preasure ( yes put a Tiger on it), condenser or intercooler blocking flow ( maybe), WATER PUMP CAVITATION DUE TO R P M ( yes the most overlooked and almost always the problem). When the pump cavitates it whips gas out of the coolant and gas will not transfer heat. When you pull in the pits in moments the gas reabsobes and the problem is masked.
If you look at our power curve we do not need to dwell at 7200 to 7500 to make time. Only carry the RPM when needed not cronically. The beat resolution is put a bigger pulley on the water pump to turn it slower, or put a racing pump on it. Ours is designed to cool the car on a hot day under 2000 with the a c on. Not at full song. I have cured many many production race cars with this problem. I bet the r and s have bigger pulleys on the pump. Let me know please.
This post has created quite a buzz. I think at least 4 people have mentioned it to me today both locally and from far away. How do we get an answer to this? I can't believe that I was running 255 ECT with the 302S radiator, Tiger hood, air-to-oil cooler (only 240* oil) and NO GRILLE. This is more plausible than anything else I've heard. I am ready to ditch my a/c condenser as a last resort, but with all the cooling mods I've done, how am I overheating the water in a 20 minute session when the race cars are going for hours?
 
cloud9 said:
This post has created quite a buzz. I think at least 4 people have mentioned it to me today both locally and from far away. How do we get an answer to this? I can't believe that I was running 255 ECT with the 302S radiator, Tiger hood, air-to-oil cooler (only 240* oil) and NO GRILLE. This is more plausible than anything else I've heard. I am ready to ditch my a/c condenser as a last resort, but with all the cooling mods I've done, how am I overheating the water in a 20 minute session when the race cars are going for hours?

Before you take it out I would look into closing off any air leaks between the grille and condenser. This is my next project.
 

OLOABoss

AKA OLOABoss
5 DOT 0 said:
OLOABoss said:
Talk to Andie at Cobalt Friction in Coral Springs, FL. I run them on the GT3 with awesome wear over 10 track days and counting. I got a set of XR1 front and XR2 rear for the Boss and they have been great so far.

Peter
Are you using them on the street and if so how noisy are they?

Any update on your shifting/clutch problems?

Yes I run them on the street and have minimal noise. I believe I paid around $800 for 2 fronts and 1 rear set as the rears last through 2 sets of fronts. I don't have a real good handle on life yet as I only have a couple of track days on them but I don't expect to get the same life I get on the GT3 as the Boss swept pad area is much smaller and is around 450# heavier.

Don't have the clutch issue resolved yet. I haven't done anything since the One Lap but I am taking it to TrickPro Friday to see if they, ie Ram's solution, have got a remedy.

Peter
 
2012YellowBoss said:
OLOABoss said:
Scott

Talk to Andie at Cobalt Friction in Coral Springs, FL. I run them on the GT3 with awesome wear over 10 track days and counting. I got a set of XR1 front and XR2 rear for the Boss and they have been great so far.

Re your oversteer now without the Nannies you are running 275/18 square set up now correct. If so you probably need either a stiffer front bar or softer rear bar to balance the car. The Advance Track being on before was probably covering up some of this with the electronics.

Peter
Yes, I am running the take-off squared. Most of the oversteer is driver induced so I am not too worried. When I spun at 16 I was driving in the rear-view and was off line and too fast etc. Set the rear dampers to 2 and still have the fronts on 5, you can dial out some of the oversteer that way. I did order the P springs, sway bars, control arms - everything but the dampers. It really is amazing how well the AdvancedTrac works, it covered up quite a few of my mistakes but it is fun learning to drive this way even if it is a little scary at times.

How many days do you think we can get Boss with these pads given 2 2.5 hours a day? So far the best wear I have seen is with the PFC's. One thing I have not seen is people posting how long a pad lasts. Like I said the ST43's worked well but wore out way too fast for the money. I would like to try the Carbotechs at some point but want to give the 01's or 08's a try next.

I also run a square setup, I have a adjustable rear sway bar and have it set so I'm about 1mm smaller, I also run about 1 1/2 to 2 pounds less REAR tire presure.
 
Cloud nine. I guess you did not read my post or thought I am a crackpot. Try this it is simple. If the car is overheating keep driving hard but shift at 7000. If the temps start dropping you have pump cavitation. Please don't nuke the motor. Find out if the racing pump is a different part number. If it is find out if the pulley is bigger or the impeller is smaller. or if the part number is different just buy it, you have tried everything else. Let me know how it works out.
 
emcrace
I am 99.9% sure those parts are the same on the R, I do not know about the S but I would assume they are also the same. Maybe Mark can answer this part differences better.

Boss_302 said:
I also run about 1 1/2 to 2 pounds less REAR tire presure.
I was running about a pound less with the staggered street tire setup. I have found I like it better with 2-3 less in the rear with the slicks squared. Depends on the driver I guess. I still get into the gas early at times but it also helps with the oversteer going into a corner.
 
emcrace said:
Cloud nine. I guess you did not read my post or thought I am a crackpot. Try this it is simple. If the car is overheating keep driving hard but shift at 7000. If the temps start dropping you have pump cavitation. Please don't nuke the motor. Find out if the racing pump is a different part number. If it is find out if the pulley is bigger or the impeller is smaller. or if the part number is different just buy it, you have tried everything else. Let me know how it works out.
emc I read your post and no I don't think you're a crackpot. My question is how do we get an answer on whether the 302R or S runs a bigger pulley or has a smaller impeller.

As to the revs, yes the temps drop rapidly if you short shift. I figured that out on my first track day with the Boss as it is the obvious first thing to try. While it works, that's not a solution if you want to drive flat out ;) I do not "dwell at 7200 to 7500" I'm either increasing revs or upshifting. On the tracks I frequent, you end up at 7k+ on a regular basis before upshifting. If you short shift to avoid this scenario, you're bogging in the high 3s to low 4s and the power just isn't there in the Boss. In the GT yes, it's there at that RPM band.
 
If you are not driving hard and short shifting it is not a true indicator of what is happening. If you truly drive all out and shift at 7200 or so or 7500 the heat soak difference is minimal. As a result if temps drop buy short shifting it confirms and RPM dependent problem. The Boss computer controls most of them but can not control cavitation. I have not bought actual racing parts from Ford Racing so I could not find a part number for the race car pump. I did find the pump for the Boss and it is listed for cars with 5.0 up to 6000RPM. Made my point.
 
I had to look up cavitation. My financial engineering background doesn't cover that one. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
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2012YellowBoss said:
How many days do you think we can get Boss with these pads given 2 2.5 hours a day? So far the best wear I have seen is with the PFC's. One thing I have not seen is people posting how long a pad lasts. Like I said the ST43's worked well but wore out way too fast for the money. I would like to try the Carbotechs at some point but want to give the 01's or 08's a try next.

Scott - Find my post where I hav ethe pics of my cracked rotor frpm Pocono - I think it's under "Track Time". I also have a pic of my Pagid RS-29's with 10 tracks days on them compared to a new pad (4 to 5 sessions a day, 20 to 30 mins each). The Pads are only about 30% worn.
 
emcrace said:
If you are not driving hard and short shifting it is not a true indicator of what is happening. If you truly drive all out and shift at 7200 or so or 7500 the heat soak difference is minimal. As a result if temps drop buy short shifting it confirms and RPM dependent problem. The Boss computer controls most of them but can not control cavitation. I have not bought actual racing parts from Ford Racing so I could not find a part number for the race car pump. I did find the pump for the Boss and it is listed for cars with 5.0 up to 6000RPM. Made my point.
So if this is the problem, what is the solution? It would seem that there would be a solution thy are using for the race car that should be available. However, if the race cars use the same water pump and pulley as the street car, then.....

I wonder if smittytx or any other 302S owner has access to a replacement parts list or shop manual for their car.
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
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Do these vary in speed with engine RPM or is it all or nothing? I like the fact that it seems to be 100% bolt on.
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
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Connecticut
cloud9 said:
PeteInCT said:
Do these vary in speed with engine RPM or is it all or nothing? I like the fact that it seems to be 100% bolt on.
They're electric so they run at a constant speed and you can set to turn on at key on.

That was my guess since they draw 12 amps (vaiable speed at that current would probbaly bump the price substantially). So, my question is, how does the temp management system of the car react to having a constant flow of coolant vs. a variable flow from the stock pump based on RPM? I assume the thermostat has no issues with this... This is more of an educational question since I'm fully aware these units are used all the time in racing.

PS: The last thing we need is you with another 10+ HP ! There sill be no air left in SD ! ;D LOL
 
PeteInCT said:
cloud9 said:
PeteInCT said:
Do these vary in speed with engine RPM or is it all or nothing? I like the fact that it seems to be 100% bolt on.
They're electric so they run at a constant speed and you can set to turn on at key on.

That was my guess since they draw 12 amps (vaiable speed at that current would probbaly bump the price substantially). So, my question is, how does the temp management system of the car react to having a constant flow of coolant vs. a variable flow from the stock pump based on RPM? I assume the thermostat has no issues with this... This is more of an educational question since I'm fully aware these units are used all the time in racing.

PS: The last thing we need is you with another 10+ HP ! There sill be no air left in SD ! ;D LOL
Good question. I don't want to have issues with the PCM and throwing codes. I guess I'll ask when they get back to me. If it comes on with key on, what does the PCM think?? All these things get harder when you're running a factory tune since you can't make accommodations for it.
 
The PCM isn't going to know anything is different with the E pump vs the manual pump. The PCM doesn't keep an eye on water flow or pressure, it just looks at temp.
 

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