Good compromise setup that'll do the job on a track day...?

Discussion in 'Brakes, Wheels and Tires' started by dstine4, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. dstine4

    dstine4 TMO Beginner

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    IMG_0822.JPG Trying to keep it simple, as don't plan on beating the crap out of the car; just bought a 2012 Boss 302 (performance white) with 17,000 miles... seems as if the previous owner babied it, so I want to keep doing so, but I do want to continue running track days with NASA.

    Car has a Torsen and track key. As per recommended in the Boss 302 owner's book, I've ordered the trans cooler, but as I couldn't find the Ford front brake cooling ducts, I ordered the duct kit from Blowfish (looks to be about as good). The owner's book seems to imply the OEM brake pads (as installed) are up to track work... are they, or should they be changed out?

    I have a second set of Boss wheels, and I intend to use the rear wheels from that second set on the front to square it up; what are good road/track tires with good water channeling? What is the preferred size? The only track I drive at is Sebring, and as there can be a lot of standing water on the track at times, I'd rather have a tire that has good wet characteristics than an all-out dry tire... plus I intend to drive to and from the track.

    Any recommendations would be appreciated; thanks!
     
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  2. TMSBOSS

    TMSBOSS TMO Addict

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    OEM padd will work but will wear out soon and not deliver the stopping ability of most performance pads. Ford had to install a compromise between aggressive, quiet and drivability. They did do that. They just won’t last. I went with a Pagid pad which works on the street and track. I get noise occasionally and a bit more dust. Much better on track.

    Steve at BFR makes quality stuff. Their ducts should work well.

    If it was mine to do. I would list the spare set of Boss wheels and sell them. They are over weight and over priced. So you should be able to get a good price for them. Then look at buying wheels from a good after market supplier. Apex, a sponsor here just posted a group by. You will save shipping costs and maybe a bit more depending on how many folks commit. I signed up for a set of 18x11’s for my Boss.

    I can’t help you on wet tires. I have no experience with them

    Enjoy your new ride.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
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  3. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    100% agree on selling your extra rims. Get a set of M&M camber plates to save your front tires and consider doing what TMS suggested or at least get a set of 18x10s. --Apex is a solid place to go. For road and track, with possibilities of wet conditions your best bet may be one of the 200 Treadwear rated tires. Keep in mind after you sell those rims, and buy a new set, you will save long term buying 18s over 19s ---and there are more choices.

    Make sure you get a 285 or 295 tread width, these cars need a decent amount of rubber down!
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  4. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    JMO - Michelin Pilot Super Sports or 4s, or maybe Continental Extreme Contact Sport for dual purpose and wet conditions.
     
  5. Coz

    Coz TMO Race

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    I've run the ExtremeContact DW - the prior generation of the current ExtremeContact Sport - at Pocono in a steady rain and it was awesome.

    However, Pocono had good drainage and there was little standing water.

    Speaking of standing water, did anyome watch the IMSA Rolex 24 hours of Daytona. Wow.
     
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  6. TMSBOSS

    TMSBOSS TMO Addict

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    I did watch the Rolex race. I understand they will have a swim test before next years qualifying sessions.
     
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  7. APEXRaceParts

    APEXRaceParts Race Proven, Street Approved

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    Congrats on the new car! The cooling ducts are a great plan and Blowfish makes very nice ones. I would put fresh DOT4 brake fluid in from a company of your choosing, Motul RBF600 is great and on Amazon Prime for a heck of a deal: https://www.amazon.com/Motul-MTL100...8&qid=1548716103&sr=8-1&keywords=motul+rbf600

    For pads, I've had great luck with Porterfield R4. Many people use and love Raybestos ST-43. Just be careful not to get something too aggressive for a street tire.

    I am a bit biased, but I would definitely sell your second set of Boss wheels if you can and pick up some 18x10" through our Group Buy, found HERE. The 18x10" is lightweight, strong, offers massive brake clearance, and affordable. My new favorite go-to dual purpose setup (track days and street use) is the 18x10" ET43 paired with 275/40-18 Bridgestone S007A, found HERE.

    Here are some images of a similar car on the 18x10" EC-7s. Original photo was with the Anthracite wheels and we edited the other two. Take a look through everything and let me know if I can help out at all.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    - Cory
     
  8. KRyn

    KRyn TMO Intermediate

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    Cory,

    Does running 18x10 ET43 setup require a spacer in the front? If so, how big? When would you guys suggest running extended wheel studs?
     
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  9. APEXRaceParts

    APEXRaceParts Race Proven, Street Approved

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    Hi, this setup does not require running a spacer. You could run a 3 or 5mm if you wanted to gain a little extra space near the strut, but it's not necessary. I would suggest people use extended wheel studs for anything greater than 5mm thick, but others have reported being able to use 8mm spacers and still have barely enough thread engagement (6-7 complete turns).

    - Cory
     
  10. Midnight_Boss302

    Midnight_Boss302 TMO Beginner

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    Cory,
    what do like about the Bridgestone S007A's? I'm in a similar situation where I'm looking for a tire that can perform on the track and be used on the street. I'm running 19x10 and 19x9.5.
     
  11. blacksheep-1

    blacksheep-1 TMO Addict

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    I'm thinking you can score some righteous deals on Conti Race wets right now.
    You can put them on your spare set of Boss wheels.
    Keep the original set for, originality and buy some Apex to beat on.
    One thing you are going to run into is that car will need some serious camber, like cutting into the strut tower serious, just letting you know up front.
     
  12. docs302

    docs302 TMO Race

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    Take it from blacksheep......one of the best decisions I made. The guys at Phoenix recommended it and it gave me so much more adjustability. I was where you are right now. Bought a mostly stock Boss that I wanted to track. You find out very quickly that it's a great street car but it needs some work to be a solid track car.......lots to be a fast and reliable track car. Brake fluid, brake pads, camber plates, brake ducts, rear diff catch can, track wheels and tires, proper belts (get member mach1's custom lap and sub belt bracket and a harness bar) and safety gear. That gets you the basics.....until you get transmission lockout and replace the clutch. Then you are at least at baseline......until.....it just consumes you!
     
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  13. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    Midnight,

    Big fan of the Apex 18x11 inch rims for Boss 302s, as a square set up will eventually cost you less to run if you do a decent amount of track time. Many of us did the staggered set up but found the fronts usually went before the rears , and one could rotate only side to side with staggered - which still needs to be done. The cost of the rims from Apex can be softened by a group buy , like they are doing now, and 18s are almost always less than a 19 inch tire - plus there is a ton of selection. Keep the 19s for the street and get a set of 18s for the track and in the long run you will likely be ahead. Two of the tracks near me eat left fronts, and so many times we have guys not able to finish a weekend as a tire gets chewed up. Of course, part of it is many often don't switch side to side, but they don't have any ability to do a full switch. Granted there are some tires one can not do this with since they are directional and that should be a very important note for many when deciding on their choice of rubber ( often overlooked ).
     
  14. gww52

    gww52 TMO Advanced

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    How are the R4 pads on the street?
    I'm using R4S and like them but always heard they will crumble
    if they get to hot.


     
  15. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

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    Yep been there done that! :D
     
  16. Midnight_Boss302

    Midnight_Boss302 TMO Beginner

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    “You find out very quickly that it's a great street car but it needs some work to be a solid track car.” I found this out the first track day I did with this car. By the 2nd session I had transmission lock out, clutch pedal sticking to the floor, and a P0300 code. Combined with not so great street tires, made for a long frustrating day.


    Is replacing the clutch the fix for the lockout or can I get by with putting in a new shifter? I've read a few of the threads and there seems to be varying degrees of this issue where a new shifter fixes the problem for some and others replace the clutch.
     
  17. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    The clutch is the root of the problem for the high RPM lockout and pedal sticking. Specifically, the pressure plate housing is not up to the task at high RPM at operating temps. It does not hold the fulcrum ring for the diaphragm spring properly in those conditions. The clutch disk does not release when this happens. There is no TSB or fix or acknowledgement by Ford, but I am certain this is the problem.

    The remote/body mount shifter makes people miss when shifting under lateral and/or engine loads. The trans bushing insert was a good enough 'fix' to me for reducing the movement/misalignment in both of mine.

    The two problems are closely related and why it has taken the community a while to figure it out. The issues and solutions aren't obvious at first.
     
  18. docs302

    docs302 TMO Race

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    As Grant said.....the design is the problem. I had thrown about as much as I could at the transmission to offset the poor design. The MGW shifter and trans mount bushing did not solve the lockout. I added a CHE Engineering K-member brace with the rod-ended braces that bolt to the transmission to limit movement. Then I installed Watson solid motor mounts. It was the clutch replacement that finally stopped the lockouts. Next step is the Tremec swap. I'm done spending money on the MT-82.
     
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  19. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    You should be good to go now. What clutch did you go with?

    Personally, I don't have a problem with the MT-82. It's taken the brunt of the criticism from our community, when it has literally nothing to do with either problem. The clutch and remote mount weren't designed or specified by Getrag. This is a Ford design issue.

    I power shift both on a fairly regular basis and nothing has grenaded so far in either of mine. I do heel-toe and rev-match 100% of the shifts. So I'm not hard on the synchros at the very least. And I think it's the fact that the MT-82 tolerates some nonsense and bad driving, that people begin to expect it to handle lots of nonsense and bad habits. I don't think anything mechanical can do that.
     
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  20. dabossinnne

    dabossinnne TMO Addict

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    R4S is a good street pad (that's what the "S" means) that can only be "lightly" tracked, if that. Not ideal as track pads.

    R4 is a great track/race compound but with typical racing pad characteristics on the street: they need some heat in them to work well, they are very noisy/squealy, and throw off tons of brake dust. You'll get tired of them real quick using them on the street.

    I used to run R4 pads on the track on my old Porsche 993 and liked them a lot on the track, but they were a PITA on the street for aforementioned reasons.
     

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