GT350/350R vs Camaro SS 1LE at NCM with Andy Pilgrim

[steveespo]

Just discovered the Andy Pilgrim series of videos at NCM. Andy is really good at describing the cars and how they perform, as well as being a sh!t hot driver. So check out how Ford's track day specials fare against Chevy's Boy Wonder at their own home track.
Steve

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Great comparison on the GT 350 and the GT 350R, but for me it does beg the question, with the same tires on the base model would there be much difference if any? Of course , since the Rs can be harder to acquire , a rear seat removal , set of lighter APEX squared rims, and wider rubber, the weight would be closer and have to believe so would the times? But then, with either car, Pilgrim would definitely whip Pemberton on a road course, ha,ha.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Andy does a nice job reviewing the cars. A little less fluff compared to Randy Pobst. I wonder who's the faster driver? My bet is Andy not Randy. Regardless the SS 1LE is a fantastic value and great option if you're on a budget and a bowtie fan. I still wish for a GT350 with a CPC Aluminator. Maybe the new Mach 1 will have some GT350 DNA in it with the 480 HP Bullitt motor and the DCT. I can only dream.

 

[steveespo]

Great comparison on the GT 350 and the GT 350R, but for me it does beg the question, with the same tires on the base model would there be much difference if any? Of course , since the Rs can be harder to acquire , a rear seat removal , set of lighter APEX squared rims, and wider rubber, the weight would be closer and have to believe so would the times? But then, with either car, Pilgrim would definitely whip Pemberton on a road course, ha,ha.

Good questions Bill, R is 100lbs lighter but that can be resolved easily, Andy said Ford told him the base rear "Swing" actually makes more downforce than R wing, so add "R" front splitter to equalize that. Maybe the base car is close enough to not buy the Carbon wheels. Tires really don't matter after 2 track days you are switching to anything you want to put on there.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

My thoughts exactly, Steve!

 

[j3st3r]

I will go delete my post then... Obviously I feel very fortunate to be a member of the NCM crew, and to be able to work with Andy on a regular basis. Andy took my bone stock 350 out on RE71's and his out lap was a 2:17, with 31psi in the tires. Andy said he figured there was probably another close to 2 seconds he felt he could have taken out of the time, but did not get a chance to put anymore laps in. I have since run a 2:16 in my car, and talking and watching the video and very eager to try a couple of the things Andy does in the video, specifically around going down to second gear in more than one place on the track as I do in Turn 10. The car definitely has a 15 in it, and I have the R front splitter and rear wing coming for the 2020 season. It will be very interested to see what these do in the way of lap times.

 

[carver]

Gotta love the sound of those Mustangs....Amazing!!!

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Between the Randy Andy show, er, the Andy and Randy show, I would have to give a little edge to the guy whose last name starts with a P!

Seriously, both of these gentleman operated at a very high level of competition and I like both of them since they are each in their 60s. I knew Randy early in his career when he was Autocrossing ( clear back when the Nationals were in Salina, Kansas ). Not claiming much, since even though I was helping with the Logistics of the Nationals and even did some Emceed some event parties , he has no clue who I am ( evidenced at the Solo Nationals when my son and I chatted with him in the food line ). I always followed his success because it was cool seeing an Autocrosser jump up to the Big Leagues and do so well. Andy was someone to watch because he was a GM Contract Driver for so many years , ran at LeMans and did a little Nascar, but to say which one is better is a tough judgement. Ironically they both ran together with the K-Pax Team ( World Challenge ) , so as Teammates one would guess they were pretty darn equal.

One thing, over the years, they both seem to really like GM products, so the glowing reports each have had for the GT 350 and GT 350R , have been a true representation of what an outstanding machine these beasts are. Expect them both to be glowing over the GT 500, also.

Best part is they both exemplify that age is relative , since in their 60s each is still blazingly quick on the track. Heck, Randy Pobst jumped in cars he had never been in before and went out and won the Solo Nationals after not competing for decades.

If you go by Championships, alone, Randy would edge out a bit, and if you add in their time as Teammates , Randy won the Championship when they were both racing the Volvos at K-Pax.

 

[VoodooBoss]

I’ve met Randy twice and he’s a very nice guy and always willing to talk cars. I’m not sure who talks more: Randy, Bill or me!

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Been around Randy over the years, and hung out with you at the Mustang Roundup this year, so I can answer your question quite easily --- I talk way more than both of you. Pretty sure , Tyme, TMS and a few others will chime in and comment on Blabbermouth Bill !? Heh, it is the humble man who can admit to his own faults right ?

 

[TMSBOSS]

Yep.

Who loves ya baby.

 

[TymeSlayer]

And the winner is.... Pemberton and I don't even know Randy.

I’ve met Randy twice and he’s a very nice guy and always willing to talk cars. I’m not sure who talks more: Randy, Bill or me!

 

[5.M0NSTER]

Good reviews! Love the sound of the Mustangs! I have to admit though that Camaro squeaking out an almost equal time to GT350 for $10k less is impressive.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Sure, but keep in mind it would likely take at least 25K in mods to get rid of " Fugly!"

 

[5.M0NSTER]

Sure, but keep in mind it would likely take at least 25K in mods to get rid of " Fugly!"

That bit is subjective to be honest. I personally do prefer the looks of the GT350, but could live the chevy look too. I like the interior of the Chevy better. To each his own I suppose.

 

[VoodooBoss]

@byronj

 

[saleen367]

Great comparison on the GT 350 and the GT 350R, but for me it does beg the question, with the same tires on the base model would there be much difference if any? Of course , since the Rs can be harder to acquire , a rear seat removal , set of lighter APEX squared rims, and wider rubber, the weight would be closer and have to believe so would the times? But then, with either car, Pilgrim would definitely whip Pemberton on a road course, ha,ha.

I got into a "discussion" on another forum about the FP Cup 2's for the 2019+ 350's vs the Cup 2's for the R or PP2's. Seems Ford had Michelin change the compound to give added tread life and create a "Cup 2" that was more "daily". I wrote to Michelin and Tire Rack asking for compound specifics on those FP Cup 2's and have gotten zero responses.
I do know based on the specs provided by Tire Rack that both the 295 and 305's in the FP Cup 2's are exactly 11.4" tread width measured on the stock rims, which surprisingly is .4" wider than the 305 for the 350R (front) and my PP2. Anyone else have any knowledge or firsthand experience on the new FP designs?
My argument was that, in the end, almost no one who are serious at HPDE runs stock issue tires for track days, so they would likely never see an even track comparison unless it was a staged media presentation such as R&T or C&D.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

The thing is that the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 is a dang good track tire , that has some advantages for those driving to a road course. You will note that many of us , including Black Boss , have mentioned the PSC2 is not a lot slower than an R7 Hoosier and on really warm days it might even be faster. For HPDE's it is a really good choice in my estimation and I know a lot of guys that run it -- they want something just a bit more aggressive than the 200 TW tires, but not the wear or the limited highway driving situations with a Hoosier A7/R7 , BFG gforce R1S, or Toyo RRs.

 

[VoodooBoss]

While most do change up tires that becomes less true when cars come stock with SC2's and Trefeo R's etc. I ran the R spec 305/30/19 SC2's on my GT350 and have seen many GT350R owners running the stock tires years after they purchased the car. Still see Z/28 owners running Trefeo R's too. Porsche GT3 owners commonly use the stock SC2's that come on their cars. If I purchased a PP2 or 2019+ GT350 and was serious about tracking my car I'd look at the GT350R spec tires to run if I wasn't going to use the R7.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

VoodooFlatsix,

Gotta say, I do love the color of your car !!!