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GT350 Luncy starts -Dealer greed over the top.

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REAL 1

Death smiles at everyone. Army Rangers smile back.
Spoke to a dealer with an allocation for some R's. Asked if they would take an order at MSRP and a deposit of $5000.00.

No way. They want $25,000 over.

Oh well. Will have to wait out the silliness.
 
2,198
1,065
Bay Area
REAL 1 said:
This is exactly why Ford took the new FGT away from dealers and is offering it direct to the customer.

Dealer greed as usual is unbridled and disgusting. On principal I wouldn't buy a GT350 over MSRP right now.

I remember large ADMs with the Shelby GT, the GT500KR, '07 GT500 and Boss. I never forget a local dealer in 2008 asking $15K over list on a 2007 GT500 right before the market tanked and housing crashed. I offered MSRP. They laughed. I walked. Two weeks later they called me after the housing market crash and offered me the car for $200 over their cost/tissue on the car. Now I laughed.

Where are all those guys who paid the $10K to $25K over list on those cars today? You certainly won't here from them now due to embarrassment. What a waste of money.

It's just frustrating. I would buy a GT350 at MSRP but will NEVER pay over list. I'll wait.

Truth is most of us can't even push a Boss to it's limits on a track in stock configuration.

Last sentence: WELL SAID!!! I am waiting out again..
 
I would have been all over an R for $5K over. I was willing to go $10k over and thought I had one lined up but it wasn't an R. What a relief! I wanted an R with the tech pack for the AC but didn't want all the other stuff. I'll be quite happy with my TP with lightweight wheels and the same PSC2 tires found on the R.
 
Fomoco302 said:
Crazy thing is even R owners aren't done spending money, e.g. Replace the CF wheels. I never have and never will pay sticker for a car. I got my Boss for $2k under sticker. But that's just me. My next move is a new F150 and they average $10k under sticker here in Texas.

I'm spending money on my R, for sure...I wish Ford had offered a full track safety package with the cars, but they didn't. So I'll spend money there. Replace the CF wheels? not a chance. If I didn't value the 'R' bits, I wouldn't have bought an R. I might as well also pull the wing off and put a spoiler on it so I don't damage the ridiculously-expensive wing.
When are any enthusiasts done spending money on their car?
Nice work on your Boss deal at $2k under...
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
7,530
5,247
Exp. Type
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Illinois
I know I won't be getting a bunch of 'likes' for this particular post, but come on people.

You got one from me!!!.

Same conversation I have with my Dad every few years. Why are companies outsourcing? They are so disloyal. Yea...right. I then ask him of he buys gas at the same station or if he shops around, buys meat from the same market regardless of the price. Of course not....Why would I. EXACTLY.
Big business is disloyal for shopping for the lowest cost products to sell or use in their manufactured items. BUT, If a consumer travels to the next town to get a better deal....that is the free market at work.
I said it before, ADM which brings the cost of a GT-350 to over $100k is there to ensure that keep the showroom bling item in the showroom, Unless someone just has to have it that bad.

edit: fixed quote marker
 

302 Hi Pro

Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
2,009
441
Southeast
I guess the bottom line is, if some will pay it, then some will charge it.

In the end, we still have the best market system on the planet.

302 Hi Pro
 
The beauty of this forum, especially when compared to other Mustang forums, is the civility and respect we share for all things Mustang. That goes for opinions too. This ADM topic is a no win every time and I liken it to politics and religion which we steer clear of on BMO. It's all about being an enthusiast and having fun with our cars whether it's at the track or your local cars & coffee. We'll leave the stupid complaining threads for the other forums like the guy that started about a dozen complaining about not getting his car when others have and actually went to the Flatrock plant to inquire where his car is. LMAO You know that shiznit wouldn't fly around here. ;D

I spent many years in the franchise business as both a franchisee and franchisor. While it's a challenge influencing prices it's not impossible. There are plenty of example of companies doing a good job controlling prices like Oakley, Rolex and Ferrari to name a few. (yeah maybe they aren't franchises but you get the picture). Ford does have leverage here. It's called supply and demand. When demand exceeds supply prices go up. All Ford has to do is increase supply.

We'll leave this thread open but try and be constructive and not just complain. And I'm sorry but when I see dealers adding a $40K markup on a car it pissed me off. Yes I know why they do it and they'll sell the car for less but it just comes across as greedy to me. And with that particular dealer they have a long history of doing the same with every limited production model that hits their showroom. But that's ok I take my business elsewhere.

I know I'm not looking for any special favors when buying a car I just want a fair shot at what I want. I wanted an R and was willing to pay ADM for one but decided not to kill many brain cells or Benjamins hunting one down. I'll be just fine in my TP car. I'm looking forward to BMO members getting their cars and filling the rear view mirror of some GT3's at their local tracks. ;)

Anyway feel free to continue to post and call out dealers with ridiculous ADM's but please keep it in this thread. If you don't want to read about it then don't read this thread.

Carry on.

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I don't get why people are so upset by ADM. If you don't like it, DON'T PAY IT. Wait a year or two. Ford has never shown a desire to play the Porsche/BMW game where they make minor tweaks, limit production for no reason, call it a different model, and collect massive profits. A GT350 or GT350R is a seriously niche car. 99.99% of people would never consider one, and of the .01% who would consider one, half can't afford it. Ford may "tune" the supply, especially of the R Model, but their hands are tied, because there are literally a dozen cars in the market at or below the $70K plus ADM-inflated pricetag with equally compelling arguments for you to buy them. The latest is the BMW M2, which will be sticker priced right around a standard GT350, will run with a Boss 302, but which has the BMW status and mystique. Its predecessor, the BMW 1M, *was* a limited production run, and now sells for *more* than its original sticker. Go on down to your BMW dealer and tell them you want to buy the first M2 they get and see what they hit you with for ADM! If the M2 goes like the 1M, you should do that right away.

Many people bought their 2012 Boss 302 with ADM, many people bought their 2013 Boss 302 for under sticker. The Z/28 was selling for $20K under after a year. Why would the GT350 be any different?
 

REAL 1

Death smiles at everyone. Army Rangers smile back.
I agree with Voodoo. While I get the "supply and demand" thing and "capitalism"....over the top greed just pisses me off. It is at a certain point "gouging". It is obnoxious to ask a $20K+ ADM on a $65K MSRP car. MHO. Yes, if you don't like it don't buy it. I get that too. Yes, the "MSRP" is "suggested" retail. I get that too. However, the MSRP is clearly what the manufacturer is "suggesting" the car be sold for and clearly means they would like to see it sell for that. It is clear Ford intended the car be sold for between $55K and $65K and announced what they were supposed to sell for. It is clear Ford (I think) Ford wants these cars in the hands of it's customers and enthusiasts. The over the top ADMs are not helping out this cause.

In no way would I sell my silver LS (I know there are only 150 Silver LS's and that's final) for a GT350 I would order an R at MSRP if I could find a dealer to order one for MSRP. I am on the "list" (near the top) at my local dealer for one and I am a loyal Ford customer. For years. I own 5 Ford/Shelby performance cars and a Raptor. Dealer doesn't care. I am not sure if my local dealer is getting an allocation for an R in 2017. 2016 allocation is sold. Even if they do get an allocation for an R they would want an ADM at this time. Before I bought my KR they wanted a $15K ADM and they had already sold two KR's at $100,000.00. Market tanked. Waited over a year and eventually bought it under list. No one was buying at the time.

If I didn't dislike the Camaro so much for it's lack of visibility the play right now is a Z28 IMHO. On par performance with the R and I can buy one for $55K. Dealers are choking on them and they are going out of production. I don't know what their production numbers were but it couldn't be more than a few thousand.

As much as I am a Ford/Shelby/Boss guy...I'm sorry at $100K+ I'm looking at the Z06 or the Viper ACR. The new Viper ACR just topped the track times of the new McLaren P1 at multiple track. I can buy new Viper ACR for $120K and maybe even wrangle a "1 of 1" build too. Supercar for sure.

I am confident that the ADMs will melt away with time. Ford GT's at first were saddled with $100K+ ADMs. They faded away after about a year.

Likely by end of 2016 you will be able to order a car at MSRP provided Ford picks up production (I think R build estimates are around 5000 cars) which I think they will. Also, if Chevy comes out with a new Z28 that could affect the prices too.

Patience.
 
180
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Austin
I paid a small ADM, small enough that it's not even worth complaining about. The only problem I have with regard to ADM is when people say "free market" like some kind of mantra. It is not a free market. It is not capitalism. It is crony capitalism. Ford dealers have a monopoly on selling Ford vehicles backed by laws in nearly every state that were written by and passed under the influence of dealer associations. In a true free market, I would be able to go online and buy directly from Ford any vehicle they make for whatever price they set. (Yes, they could theoretically charge their own premium, but at least they're the ones who made the car!) I would not be forced to go through a middle man who charges me extra money for no value added. It wasn't too many years ago that Ford tried to do just this but they were quickly and effectively blocked by said dealer associations.

It's fine to argue that ADM's aren't bad or whatever, just don't wrap yourself in the flag and spout free-market platitudes.
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
7,530
5,247
Exp. Type
HPDE
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10-20 Years
Illinois
Rick hit the nail on the head when he posted this, "The beauty of this forum, especially when compared to other Mustang forums, is the civility and respect we share for all things Mustang. That goes for opinions too."

Civil to the point where I cringe when posting on other sites. Example, There was a reference to another new site that also listed the deal on the wheels Gary and Rick are working with a new BMO vender. So, I went over to the site mentioned and logged in. I responded to a threat discussing axel issues on the new IRS. The first response was sarcastic and a bit rude. I was chastised for writing too much. I believe it was 3 separate paragraphs and 9 sentences. OMG.

Needless to say, I don't see my post count climbing past 10 on that site.

Thanks again to Rick and the other Mods. Great topics and a little shepherding as needed are appreciated.
 
The reason there are ADM's on cars is because people are paying it including myself. I paid 4k ADM which I don't think is terrible, but I paid a premium to have my car sooner than later. Plus, I got to order exactly what I wanted. Eventually the ADM's should disappear depending on how long the run is for the GT350's.

I do think some of these dealers are ridiculous in how much they are charging. I've seen 15-20k+. I wonder how many people are paying that much.
 

REAL 1

Death smiles at everyone. Army Rangers smile back.
Just had a good discussion with the sales manager from my local dealer. Bought many vehicles from them over the years. He assured me I am definitely on the list for a car on their next allotment. They don't know what they will be allotted for 2017 but he indicated I will get the R if they get an allotment and indicated he would be likely willing to do MSRP for me. We'll see. He said he expects and understands production will pick up in the spring and said they expect 1000 R's to be built for 2016 and 1000 for each following year along with 3000 non R's per year. He expects to get an allotment of more cars including R's.

Now its just a waiting game. :(
 
What is most upsetting was that the decision to limit production made the cut. I'm not buying the CAFE argument, especially with Ford pumping out endless numbers of F150's, etc. The 5.2 engine is not the limiting factor here. Some at Ford simply believe that limiting production to a few thousand somehow does the brand and model well and probably surmised the ADM issue would arise but that the dust would eventually settle and people would move on.

I'd like to see Ford uncork the cap on production and provide allocations to dealers that turn over their Mustang inventory the fastest. The car was engineered to be a great one but bottlenecked via fatcat middlemen at the dealer level. I don't blame the dealers for what they are doing. I blame Ford for recognizing that this would happen and letting it happen regardless. How many F150's would Ford sell if dealers played the same ADM game? A silly question, but the point was to produce a great car that would help bolster the image to the delight of enthusiasts everywhere. Not to line the pockets of the middleman and allow him to hold the vehicle hostage.

Wake up Ford. You are pissing a lot of people off.
 

REAL 1

Death smiles at everyone. Army Rangers smile back.
TMSBOSS said:
You do realize sedans and pickups are categorized differently for CAFE standards?

There is a Gas Guzzler tax on the GT-350

An ADM on a 15,000 unit per month production is not likely. Supply and Demand.

Not sure what you mean????. ADMs are now ranging from low of $10K to $40K.

My dealer told me only two R's exist in the Northeast. Tasca and All American Ford. All American wants $40K over. I sure Tasca is not far behind.
 

four-walling

Kerry, San Diego
The local San Diego area Benz dealer turned down an offer of $150K over MSRP when the SLR hiit the market.

They ended up selling the car after it sat on showroom for a couple of years at a $50K loss.

All the ready, willing and able buyers were gone...
 
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