GT350 Oil Cooler - Running the lines

Discussion in 'GT350 and S550 Technical Forum' started by blk2017, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. blk2017

    blk2017 TMO Intermediate

    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    31
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    Location:
    Vienna Austria
    Hello Everyone

    I am adding the Setrab oil cooler in a 2017 GT350 and have a couple of options as to connecting and running the oil cooling lines. I would really appreciate comments as to what the “better” approach might be in regards to minimizing potential failures or leaks.

    There are basically two approaches that I see. The first has two variations.

    Option 1
    Use the stock factory oil filter adapter that is mounted on the engine block and then two possibilities exist:
    a) cut the factory hose and splice in AN12 hose to the cooler and back
    b) remove the factory hose completely and tap the two ports right at the filter adapter for AN12 fittings (or the max size that would safely work)

    I have this place that makes hydraulic hose for farm tractors and such just down the street, they also pressure test. They have every type of ends (mainly crimp on) you could imagine. I also have a machine shop that can handle the taping of the factory oil filter adapter professionally.

    Oil Filter Adapter GT350 New Style Filterr 2.jpg
    Advantages:
    - factory oil filter (I still have the spin on filter – pre Jan 2017 – could swap out the whole oil filter adapter though for the newer canister type while I am at it.
    - factory oil pressure sensor location / no wiring changes or mods
    - factory look- use black hose and fittings
    - only 4 points of possible failure or leaks, 2 fittings at the filter housing and 2 fittings at the cooler
    - the option of splicing into the factory hose would of course be a larger risk of failure or leaks then taping the factory oil filter adapter.

    Option 2
    Use the Ford Performance Remote Filter Adapter - M-6881-M50A – which replaces the factory oil filter adapter completely and just has 2 AN12 ports.
    Would need to an after market remote oil filter mount and 3 AN12 lines – 6 AN12 fittings.

    M-6881-M50A.JPG

    Advantages:
    - Complete flexibility – i.e.. add an Accusump Accumulator later
    - Use a Fram Racing oil filter – lots of options

    Disadvantages:
    - Need to remount the factory oil pressure sensor
    - Need to find room for a remote spin on filter – not much there – changing the oil filter could be a pain
    - 6 AN fittings - more exposure to failure or leaks
    - Added cost FP filter adapter - $173 + $150-200 remote filter mount with port for sensor
    - State safety inspection would see the changes instantly

    Would appreciate comments or info on what others have done when adding an oil cooler.
    Thanks!
     
    ArizonaBOSS likes this.
  2. JAJ

    JAJ TMO Addict

    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    576
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Hmmm... I can see upside to all of the approaches. If it were me, though, I'd start with the well-tested factory parts because they offer a lot, especially when it comes to vibration resistance. By reputation, parts that are threaded onto a Voodoo engine have an amazing ability to unthread themselves and leak. The threaded fittings on the FP filter adapter look like a problem waiting to happen - you can use Loctite 545 on the AN connections, but those o-ring straight threads look like trouble. The same thoughts apply to threading the factory filter adapter - how do you keep things attached? So, if i were doing it, I'd take a close look at how I might splice into the rubber oil lines with the OEM Ford fittings on them. Once you're past the first few inches of rubber, vibration becomes much less of a concern.
     
    VoodooBoss, blk2017 and TymeSlayer like this.
  3. blk2017

    blk2017 TMO Intermediate

    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    31
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    Location:
    Vienna Austria
    Hello JAJ,

    Thanks for the reply and comments, really appreciate it!

    Your concerns are also my main concerns with the Voodoo vibrations. Would be nice to do this once and forget about it. But changing the oil cooling lines will make me worry about something coming loose, undone, or leaking forever after touching this which could potentially be catastrophic.

    Don’t know if anyone remembers but there was a TSB, recall, and sales stop on the GT350/R for the oil cooler lines in late 2016 early 2017. Mine was not part of that recall, mine was built 12 Sept 2016 and already had the new oil hoses.

    So I am a little worried with getting this right and worry/maintenance free.

    I have one other slight problem and that is with the state safety inspection. We have two inspections here every year, one is safety and the other is exhaust. Safety inspection basically says you can’t change anything, period and they also check for worn parts like links, bearings, etc. There are only 4 GT350’s (2 GT350 and 2 GT350R) here so upside is that inspectors don’t even know what it is that they are looking at. But I would guess that red/blue anodized connectors with stainless steel lines stick out like a sore thumb. Look cool though. Stripping the anodizing and re-anodizing in black would work to camouflage the adapter but another pain. Also it’s not just 6 AN connectors (3 hoses) but behind each hose end connector is another adapter like you pointed out and those are straight threaded adapters with o-rings so actually 12 points of potential failure / leaks.

    So this is the approach that I will take (I think)

    The factory oil lines have 3 metal hose sections (two ends and a middle section with mounting bracket) and 2 sections of rubber hose with crimped on ends.

    Shelby OEM Oil Cooler Lines 2.png

    Remove the crimped on end from the metal hose ends that attach to the factory filter adapter (circled above) and have black AN12 hose (with the black vinyl mess over it) crimped on to those ends. Have it pressure tested at 2x the max engine oil pressure and hope for the best. These guys at the shop that make the farm tractor hydraulic lines know what they are doing, I think/hope :)

    This is also the approach that FP took with the FP350S. Factory oil filter adapter and Watson made the oil lines.

    I guess worst case is that I have new ends made like the factory ends that go into the filter housing but with barbs under the hose so that the hose crimp will hold better. That is if the factor hose end has a smooth finish under crimp at the hose. I have a machine shop that repairs farm tractors (I’ve seen really old tractors in there up to the newer huge quad type tractors) and those guys can repair and or fabricate anything. These good old farm boys are amazing and have helped me out more then once with their huge press (races and bearings), all types of welding, and parts fabrication.

    Actually found the FP Oil Line Adapter in the 5.2l Aluminator 5.2 XS crate motor instructions but that motor is a cross plane crank.

    On the cooler, I will go with a Setrab unit I can get here locally but it only has 48 rows, also a 9 series. It’s only €250 and no freight (normally I buy in the US) and no customs duties (24%) on top of that so that the 60 row that they used in the FP350S (50-960-4063) would cost me $1200 when all is said and done. The company is still checking if they can get the FP350S unit and what the cost would be. Honey Badger did a great video on his YouTube channel on the FP sheet metal ducting closing up and directing air into the radiator opening just like FP did on the FP350S.

    Thanks again! It confirms the concerns. I will tackle this in the next couple of weeks before my next track event at the Red Bull Ring in late October and I will post pictures of the project. I think the hose ends and the making of the hose will be interesting to document in case someone else decides to add an oil cooler.

    Peter
    Vienna Austria
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
    JeffV8 likes this.
  4. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

    Messages:
    20,804
    Likes Received:
    3,136
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Location:
    90 Miles East of Sonoma Raceway
    Is your oil running that hot? On my 2016 it was the diff that ran hot and the engine coolant, engine oil and trans oil all stayed relatively cool even in 100 degree heat. I did have my oil lines replaced as part of the TSB but never had any issues with the stock ones leaking.
     
  5. Black Boss

    Black Boss TMO Addict

    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    1,319
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Location:
    Michigan
    For my build I went with these, they fit directly to the stock adaptor, and can be custom made to any length/end fitting. Call TJ at TK Autosports. 888-978-5506 or Email him at TJKENNY@TKAutosports.com:

    32374944060_dc0b838e83_k.jpg
     
    blk2017 and VoodooBoss like this.
  6. blk2017

    blk2017 TMO Intermediate

    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    31
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    Location:
    Vienna Austria
    @BlackBoss
    Thanks! Interesting solution. Any problems with the AN fittings on the filter adapter side loosening up and or leaking? I'll give him a call, Would need an all black solution. Thanks!

    @VoodooBoss
    Avg speeds here are a little different then in the US. I share a workshop with an Austrian friend of mine that has a 95 GT - track rat 350hp beast, Griggs Suspension. The shop is 1 hour south of Vienna in the foot hills of the Alps. After an hour of averaging about 100mph there is uphill about 3 miles long. Drop it 2 gears and put your foot in it and I can take the oil to 230F every time with ambient air at 80F. MY BMW doesn't have that problem. Diff temps are worse, no doubt. My wife and I went to Prague last weekend and its pretty much down hill all the way. On the way back there are 2 3-4 mile long uphills. LE doesn't run radar uphill :) Needless to say I can really take the temps into the red zone pretty easily if I try. Never ? really had issues on the track during a 20 min stint but then again I am not really watching the temps, too busy watching traffic and the track.

    Problem with the diff is the pump has this nasty diagnostics signal that may not be that easy to get around. Need to look closer at that to know fir sure. I also don't like the FP solution of running the diff lines all the way to the front and back. Spartan had a better idea with a cooler fan combination in the back. Winter project. Just seems that the oil cooler is an easy one (weekend job) once you get the line issues sorted out. BTW, Great place to toss out ideas and gather ideas!
     
    ArizonaBOSS likes this.
  7. Dylan Brown

    Dylan Brown TMO Beginner

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2019
    Location:
    Lafayette Louisiana
    For running mine we just pulled the lines off and had AN fittings welded on, also re used the factory cooler for the diff.

    66A72105-F29C-400B-81E9-3143AE53A714.jpeg 2B17BFF3-5005-4FF7-B6E2-45E1C27FF5F7.jpeg E54143CE-9F3C-4BA7-AB18-8913F4A31C29.jpeg FBF1E832-4C86-4E94-879C-1E125503480D.jpeg
     
    blk2017 and ArizonaBOSS like this.
  8. Black Boss

    Black Boss TMO Addict

    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    1,319
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Location:
    Michigan
    No problem with the AN fittings, and they’ll do Black. That said 230* is no issue with synthetic oil. I’m running 255-265* in 100* ambients after 30 minutes with the 948 Setrab cooler. Car is making 515 RWHP unrestricted.

    Here’s an easy solution to Diff cooling that lowers temps about 20-30*. Ignore the scuff marks — I’m running a lowered car on 18” wheels:

    43E6BEBA-334C-46E9-A2AB-BE9BE78D542D.jpeg
    FEAE007A-C20E-425B-9CFD-05DDC55C32CD.jpeg
    16721632-1917-4440-8B9E-8A4F5CBEB2C4.jpeg
     
    blk2017, Dylan Brown and ArizonaBOSS like this.
  9. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

    Messages:
    20,804
    Likes Received:
    3,136
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Location:
    90 Miles East of Sonoma Raceway
    That's why I asked on the oil temp, I'd be very happy with 230 oil temp under just about any conditions.

    @Black Boss nice adding the scoops. I was always concerned that the NACA ducts just weren't pulling in enough air. The diff cooler looked like it was large enough to get the job done. I was very pleased with all of the fluid temps on my GT350 except for the rear diff. Have you added the scoops to your stock GT350R?
     
  10. Black Boss

    Black Boss TMO Addict

    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    1,319
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Location:
    Michigan
    @VoodooBoss I did it on the Race Car, because it is significantly lowered, reducing underbody airflow. I'm sure that's why the FP350S has a cooler up-front. Scoops seem to be more than adequate from a cooling perspective and eliminate the complexity and potential failure modes of running the cooler up front.

    I plan to move this to the stock GT350R when I add a more aggressive Diffuser to the Race Car.
     
    BigTaco and VoodooBoss like this.
  11. BigTaco

    BigTaco TMO Addict

    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    198
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Did you make the scoops? Those are, uh, cool!
     
  12. Black Boss

    Black Boss TMO Addict

    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    1,319
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Location:
    Michigan
    Yea, bent them out of sheet Aluminum. Not pretty, but effective and no one can see them anyway!
     
    blk2017, RaiderJatt02 and BigTaco like this.
  13. blk2017

    blk2017 TMO Intermediate

    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    31
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    Location:
    Vienna Austria
    You guys totally blow me away!
    You have more ingenuity in your pinky then I do in my whole body! That's why I love this place!

    @VoodooBoss

    On the oil temp, my understanding is that 230-240F is the max an engine should see for any extended period of time. Ideal would be 220-230F just to boil off any water condensation. At 240-260F the alarm bells should be going off and at 260-280F the oil starts to break down limiting oil life. I get edgy when I see oil go north of 230F. Hard to monitor on the track though without some sort of logging. In the FP350S Owner Manual, they recommend changing the oil and filter every 10 hours.

    In the American Muscle video on the FP350S, xxx mentioned that oil temps were a problem and that they added the huge Setreb oil cooler and increased the oil capacity 50% taking it from 10qt to 15qt, cooler, lines, race oil pan. Removed the grill blocking plate, adding radiator ducting, and added the center hood vent so the air can get out without going under the car.

    Just added the TrackSpec center hood vent yesterday

    PA130006.JPG

    @Dylan Brown – nice job!

    @Black Boss
    I contacted TJ at TK Autosports and he got me hooked up with just the AN10 adapters to the stock oil filter housing ports in black anodized. He also said that they have sold lots with no issues on the adapters or the AN hose connectors loosening up. Thanks for the tip! Solves a potential problem, nice clean solution!

    TK Autosports Adapter - black anodized 2.jpg

    Also cool but very simple idea on the diff cooler. Maybe I'll I have time to tackle both (oil and diff cooling) before my next track event end of Oct.

    Thanks everyone!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019 at 12:30 AM
  14. JAJ

    JAJ TMO Addict

    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    576
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Allow me to draw your attention to this thread that I posted recently: https://trackmustangsonline.com/threads/used-oil-analysis-of-mc-5w50-shocking-news-its-good.15243/

    The oil's in great shape after running the OLM down to 11%. The use cycle is 6500 miles and it includes 1,200 miles - let's say 18 hours - at 230 to 260F on a race track at speed.

    It's great that you're putting in more cooling, but if all you're seeing is 230F to 250F, you can probably stay with the factory cooling setup.

    BTW - Loctite makes a specific product - Loctite 545 - for AN connectors. The big user of 545 is aerospace, and it's priced accordingly, but it works great. It's intended for high vibration environments.
     
    blk2017 likes this.
  15. blk2017

    blk2017 TMO Intermediate

    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    31
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    Location:
    Vienna Austria
    Hello JAJ,
    My experience with oil over 240F sounding warning bells comes from single engine prop planes. 240+F is a sign that there is a serious problem. All that heat can't be good for an aluminum engine block and heads. Both my wife and I drive BMW's (Bavarian Manure Wagons) and neither one has any problems with oil temps like the Shelby. I push them pretty hard especially when we go to Germany to visit the mother-in-law. My record for the 1000km (620 miles) is just under 6 hours, with 1 fuel stop :) Those unlimited speed stretches are long and wild. I guess I see the added oil cooling as simple engine insurance.

    Thanks for the tip on the Loctite 545. Well worth the extra money imho

    Thanks again!
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019 at 12:32 AM

Share This Page