The Mustang Forum for Track & Racing Enthusiasts

Taking your Mustang to an open track/HPDE event for the first time? Do you race competitively? This forum is for you! Log in to remove most ads.

  • Welcome to the Ford Mustang forum built for owners of the Mustang GT350, BOSS 302, GT500, and all other S550, S197, SN95, Fox Body and older Mustangs set up for open track days, road racing, and/or autocross. Join our forum, interact with others, share your build, and help us strengthen this community!

Hawk HP plus vs. Raybestos ST 41/43

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

5 DOT 0 said:
Great info thanks for sharing. Which HP pads did you use? Others have stated the HP+ are good starter pads but the HPS are not.

I started with the HP Plus, for my first weekend by Sunday afternoon I was overheating the pads, so looking back others had told me to go with Carbotech right off...................only trying to save others the cost of a set of pads...................
 
True but from what I understood you could still use the 41-43 on the street unlike the Hawk 60-70's. I assume the Raybestos were a better track pad and the reason I stated the this the way I did was to get opinions if the Hawk HP+ would work for a beginner to save a few $$$'s.
 
HP+ is a good starting pad - one thing to remember, as a beginner, you will be overheating your brakes for a good while.
 
5 DOT 0 said:
It would be nice if we could get a price on the stock rotors but I haven't been able to find it.

Dealer list (my dealer is good and does not mark up 300%) is
Pads front 250 rear 80
Rotors Front ea 200 rear ea 80

That is not too bad. If you are just tracking the Boss like me, these work just fine and Ford has been beating the crap out of the PP Bosses for a while on the factory setup. The factory pads are solid and most of the racing pads have a open line in the center area, not sure what difference that makes in stopping and/or heat. Same with getting the slotted rotors. Maybe one of the racers can tell us how these two things effect stopping and cooling?
 
Yellow 2012,

I’m not a “racer” but I do attend track events at Sebring, Daytona Homestead and Palm Beach Raceway.

First, your dealer is asking you way too much for rotors.

You should only pay about $130.00 for each rotor. If your dealer says they cost $200.00, tell him you can get them for $125.77 plus shipping (to my Zip Code 33596 its’ 16.13), so 141.90 total.

Look here FORD Parts Giant http://www.fordpartsgiant.com/

Ford gets it’s rotors from Brembo. When you get the rotors they will be in Ford box but when opened they are rapped in wax/oil paper that says “Brembo”.

Whatever rotors you get, get quality. Don’t go for the ones that are little cheaper, that usually means offshore and not from a quality offshore company.

Now remember I look at each dollar and then what does that dollar get me? Do I want endurance? Or do I want to cut a couple of 10ths off of my lap time?

Is getting each pound of sprung/unsprung weight so import that I’ll spend 2500 dollars for new brakes, so I have two piece rotors?

These are my options with facts thrown in........

First of all consult with the brake pad manufacture, what type of rotor do they recommend with their compound?

There are Advantages and Disadvantages to all types of rotors.

I look for long life in my components because I don’t want to replace things each time I go to the track.

So let’s look at rotors………….

Slotted rotors

These slots that are etched into what is normally the flat surface of the brake.

- The rotors manufacturer will say….”you need these so when the pad out gasses the gas has a place to go.

- The pad manufacturer will tell you modern compounds don’t outgas so don’t use them.

OR

- The rotor manufacturer will tell you….”you need these so you get good initial bite.

- The pad manufacturer will tell you modern compounds are what gives you good initial bite.

So it’s up to you so far! But I do know this, removing mass increases the heat stress the rotor will have to contend with.

Stress = Shorter Life.

Cutting thin slots across the face of the rotor can actually help to clean the face of the brake pads over time, helping to reduce the glazing often found during high-speed use which can lower the coefficient of friction.

Cross Drilling Rotors

You can get the same responses for cross drilled rotors….and more stress riser cracks etc…..but Porche does it, yes they do but those are designed from day one are a cross drilled rotors and not one that someone just drlled holes into!

Cross drilling your rotors might look neat, but what is it really doing for you? Well, unless your car is using brake pads from the '40s and 50s, not a whole lot.

It’s the same story as the slotted rotors…….out gassing……….

Contrary to popular belief, they don't lower temperatures. (In fact, by removing weight from the rotor, they can actually cause temperatures to increase a little.)

Think of the rotors as heat sinks the more material on the rotor the more heat they can absorb before the reach a critical temperature.

Bottom-line rotors are a wear item.

You can pay less for a quality vented Brembo blank rotor or more for fancy slotted/cross drilled rotors, or you can step up to two piece rotors, even more money.

Do what you want.

When your rotors wear out and it comes time to replace them spend the money………………..

Look at it this way

Brembo Vented Rotor = 12 hours of life until replacement: 141.90 x 2 = $283 or 23 dollars an hour

Brembo Slotted Rotors = 12 hours of life until replacement: 358 = 29 dollars an hour (these are on sale normally this would be 35 dollars and hour) Good Price……on sale........

Other Notes……….

From Waren Gilliand: (Warren Gilliland is a well-known brake engineer in the racing industry and has more than 32 years experience in custom designing brake systems ...he became the main source for improving the brake systems on a variety of different race vehicles from midgets to Nascar Winston Cup cars.) "If you cross drill one of these vented rotors, you are creating a stress riser that will encourage the rotor to crack right through the hole. Many of the rotors available in the aftermarket are nothing more than inexpensive offshore manufactured stock replacement rotors, cross drilled to appeal to the performance market. They are not performance rotors and will have a corresponding high failure rate"

From Baer: "What are the benefits to Cross drilling, Slotting, and Zinc-Washing my rotors? In years past, cross drilling and/or Slotting the rotor for racing purposes was beneficial by providing a way to expel the gasses created when the bonding agents employed to manufacture the pads...However, with today's race pad technology, 'out gassing' is no longer much of a concern...Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baer's offerings."
Hope this is what you wanted to see.
 
Boss_302 said:
You can get the same responses for cross drilled rotors….and more stress riser cracks etc…..but Porche does it, yes they do but those are designed from day one are a cross drilled rotors and not one that someone just drlled holes into!
Well I'm not sure about Porche but Porsche does cross drill their rotors along with a host of other manufacturers. ;)

Nice post and good info here. Anyone else have an opinion on cross drilling rotors?

http://www.fordpartsgiant.com/Page_Product/PartsList.aspx?VehicleID=35&CategoryId=1&ModelYear=2011&CatalogueId=247&CatalogueComponentID=1587982&ComponentCode=CZF&MajorGroupComponentID=1951720&GroupComponentID=1954329&SectionComponentID=16565385&VehicleInfo=&BuildDate=&AttributesOfVin=&LeftCertainAttribute=&Attributes=38031,40901,36563,28761
 
The prices they gave were the list price, I would assume the cost for me would be about 160-180. They are good about that and normally take 10-15% off parts just because I got the car there.

Thanks for the good info. What I am looking for is to save some money without compromising safety and at the same time being able to have the factory parts in good condition for street driving. In time I will learn what is best but I felt for now it is not a good idea not to burn off two thousand dollar sets of tires as a beginner (same with brakes). This is all a lot to take in but right now I have only about 2K in tires/rims and brakes, as long as it is not unsafe I should be OK to go have some fun.

I will be driving again Saturday, so far I like the HP+ pads on the street, let see how the hold up under heat at the track. If they work well I will be happy, there is no need for me at this point to be running pads like Hawk 60,70 10's etc. I am not driving the Boss to that level.
 
5 DOT 0 said:
Boss_302 said:
You can get the same responses for cross drilled rotors….and more stress riser cracks etc…..but Porche does it, yes they do but those are designed from day one are a cross drilled rotors and not one that someone just drlled holes into!
Well I'm not sure about Porche but Porsche does cross drill their rotors along with a host of other manufacturers. ;)

Nice post and good info here. Anyone else have an opinion on cross drilling rotors?

http://www.fordpartsgiant.com/Page_Product/PartsList.aspx?VehicleID=35&CategoryId=1&ModelYear=2011&CatalogueId=247&CatalogueComponentID=1587982&ComponentCode=CZF&MajorGroupComponentID=1951720&GroupComponentID=1954329&SectionComponentID=16565385&VehicleInfo=&BuildDate=&AttributesOfVin=&LeftCertainAttribute=&Attributes=38031,40901,36563,28761

Will they stop the car?

Yes, and very well at that!

The problem is you can get very good stuff if it was designed as an OEM part, or if you spend the big bucks for well the good stuf, Brembo, Stop Tech, and others.

Will they last as long maybe not.

What I'm trying to say is a GOOD QUALITY Vented Blank will stop the car from repeated high speeds, wehere as getting a croos drilled / Slotted Rotor from a source that is maybe a little cheaper is putting your life in you hands.....

What is the BEST if money was no object? Remember race teams (and folks with more money than I have) have the resources for new rings (rotors) when they need them/want..........

Brembos / Stop Tech Calipers / Rotors designed from day one as track/racing capliers /rotors.

Yes they are cross drilled / slotted they are two piece rotors , Hat and rings, but the cost for ONE ring is more than two vented blanks......

The high end cars have them.........but that dosen't mean they last...........

I hope I'm not rambleing it's way easier to talk about this stuff than type it out!
 
The setup I had worked very well, I could smell the brakes during the first session like crazy but they did not appear to over heat. Car did stop better then the factory setup but not by a huge difference. I was not worried about them at any point, had more tire issues to worry about.

Couple of questions- can you use slotted rotors up front and non-slotted on the back? Any real difference if both are good rotors or will that cause problems?

Is there an easy way to tell if the rotors are worn outside of measuring them, like when the slots disappear? Just asking so I know when to get in there to better check the thickness.
 
No problem running slotted on one end and not on the other. The slots don't change the friction level. There there for easing out gassing and pad cleaning. On some slotted rotors, the slots can be used as a wear indicator. It's best to check with the manufacture (or instructions) of the rotor you bought to be sure.
 

steveespo

Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child
Moderator
4,008
1,924
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Cookeville TN
I am running Hawk HP+ with DBA 5000 slotted/drilled fronts and Baer Eradispeed 14" drilled slotted rear. ATE 200 amber DOT4 fluid. This combination is nothing like stock. Initial bite is strong, much more so than stock, I haven't tracked them yet, going to Watkins Glen 7/11 but the heat range is 200 degrees higher than the stock pads so the minimal fade I experienced at Lime Rock should not exist. BTW did 100 track miles at lLime Rock and the pad wear was about 25%, rotors didn't show much effect, ridge was minimal. I would try the HP+ as I use them on the street and they are good with a little squeal at the end of stops.
Steve
 

TMO Supporting Vendors

Top