Head and Neck Restraints for Track Days

[Coz]

A few videos for your viewing pleasure.

You don't have to convince me that a H&N restraint is good, but:

1. None of this videos included an airbag.

2. None compared a crash with & without a roll bar & harness.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Exactly, there are too many variables from a drivers perspective and especially too many variables from a track day organizer perspective. You want to mitigate risks where you can and this is the next step.

 

[TMSBOSS]

One point often forgotten.
A promoter must also be careful to not also mitigate away profits.
When does a stock five star crash rated car require add safety equipment? It’s easy for us to sit back and guess. We are not playing “Bet Your Business”
Leading the pack, like HOD is doing is fantastic.....assuming the pack follows.

 

[yotah1]

This is all good and everything, and I'm happy to see this finally arrive here in the states, as it has been in effect for almost 10 years in Europe at most trackdays. Harnesses with buckets and a rollbar/rollcage require the use of a H&N device to offset the fact that your body will move a lot less in the seat, thus putting all the absorption of the energy into your neck...

One thing though, and that is very specific to USA, is the total non-sense that it is required to drive with the windows down on track... First of all, I can understand where it comes from in regards to passenger safety and safety crews extracting a guy from a wrecked car through the window. But, glass on cars has evolved a lot in the past 40 years and a shattered window won't be cutting you in half anymore. Second, I would really like to see one of the trackday organizers show me how they pull a 300 lbs driver (even a 200 lbs driver would be difficult), unconscious, through the open window of, let's say, a COrvette C7, or one of our Mustangs... I tried, I can't get inside my car Dukes of Hazzards style, so how can they justify rolling the windows down to pull me out of it after a wreck? And also, as it is supposed to be a safety concern and all, how do they justify the windows down if you dump your car into a gravel pit and have flying rocks getting into your face through the window? Or how do they justify windows down if you rollover and your arm ends up out of the window?

Safety is a good thing, and I totally agree with the HANS device being a requirement in the future, especially with how fast modern cars are, but some rules feel dated to say the least...

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Tyme , understood my reference , because he spent 2 seconds every lap adjusting his oversized helmet when I was instructing him, and he wisely understood that the constant adjustment and hands off the wheel was leaving him without the top control needed on track - not withstanding throwing off his concentration. He was a Bobblehead and I am pleased he will be getting a Hans device also , as it will likely contribute to him becoming one of the fast guys, since his " I am slow," comments never were true, but a few items did leave him with concentration gaps --- new helmet and Hans and he will really become the slayer of Tyme!!!

 

[Coz]

VoodooBoss,

What made you decide to go with the Hybrid S and a 3-point vs a conventional H&N restraint paired with a Schroth Quick Fit Pro for our Mustangs? It would seem that the price for something like a HANS III or HANS Adjustable plus the QF Pro would be about the same price as a Hybrid S. Plus do a better job of keeping your head from going out the window if you rollover. And it looks less cumbersome to get on and off.

 

[VoodooBoss]

In my Boss I used a Watson Racing roll bar, Schroth ProFi II six point and a Hans. In my GT350 I ran the WR roll bar, Schroth ASM four point with a Hans. My current car doesn’t have seats that are compatible with harnesses and I won’t be putting a roll bar in it. After using a Hans for the past five years I wanted the extra protection from the Hybrid S even though I know it’s not as safe as when Used with harnesses. I would have preferred the Hybrid Sport but it hasn’t been tested with a three point. I suspect it would work fine.

I looked at the ASM harnesses for my Boss but at the time they were not certified with a Hans. They are now.

I highly recommend calling Schroth, Hans and Simpson directly and ask them questions vs believing everything you read on the internet. All three are more than happy to give their opinions and advice. Also remember anything short of a full race setup is a compromise.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Has anyone used the SHR Flex HANS from Schroth Racing?

https://www.schrothracing.com/products/shr-flex

I tried one on this past weekend in Mooresville and was impressed with the size and comfort. SFI certified, flexible and light.

 

[The_Backmarker]

This is all good and everything, and I'm happy to see this finally arrive here in the states, as it has been in effect for almost 10 years in Europe at most trackdays. Harnesses with buckets and a rollbar/rollcage require the use of a H&N device to offset the fact that your body will move a lot less in the seat, thus putting all the absorption of the energy into your neck...

One thing though, and that is very specific to USA, is the total non-sense that it is required to drive with the windows down on track... First of all, I can understand where it comes from in regards to passenger safety and safety crews extracting a guy from a wrecked car through the window. But, glass on cars has evolved a lot in the past 40 years and a shattered window won't be cutting you in half anymore. Second, I would really like to see one of the trackday organizers show me how they pull a 300 lbs driver (even a 200 lbs driver would be difficult), unconscious, through the open window of, let's say, a COrvette C7, or one of our Mustangs... I tried, I can't get inside my car Dukes of Hazzards style, so how can they justify rolling the windows down to pull me out of it after a wreck? And also, as it is supposed to be a safety concern and all, how do they justify the windows down if you dump your car into a gravel pit and have flying rocks getting into your face through the window? Or how do they justify windows down if you rollover and your arm ends up out of the window?

Safety is a good thing, and I totally agree with the HANS device being a requirement in the future, especially with how fast modern cars are, but some rules feel dated to say the least...

Agreed, and I'll also add the that use of full-containment (halo) seats in many cars significantly slows down driver egress, especially if the car has a relatively small window opening or the driver is short and has the seat mounted closer to the steering wheel. This is of particular concern if there's a fire.

Last year I was timed doing a practice emergency egress from my Spec Miata race car and struggled to get it under ten seconds. Hitting the electrical kill switch, removing the steering wheel, unbuckling the harness, dropping the side window net, opening the door, and climbing out of a fully caged car - under controlled test conditions and not a real fire - was challenging! How many drivers practice this on a regular basis? How many drivers can do it in under ten seconds consistently?

I bet a set of brand new Hoosier tires that most drivers on grid would fail this during an impromptu test.

 

[Jza1736]

In my Boss I used a Watson Racing roll bar, Schroth ProFi II six point and a Hans. In my GT350 I ran the WR roll bar, Schroth ASM four point with a Hans. My current car doesn’t have seats that are compatible with harnesses and I won’t be putting a roll bar in it. After using a Hans for the past five years I wanted the extra protection from the Hybrid S even though I know it’s not as safe as when Used with harnesses. I would have preferred the Hybrid Sport but it hasn’t been tested with a three point. I suspect it would work fine.

I looked at the ASM harnesses for my Boss but at the time they were not certified with a Hans. They are now.

I highly recommend calling Schroth, Hans and Simpson directly and ask them questions vs believing everything you read on the internet. All three are more than happy to give their opinions and advice. Also remember anything short of a full race setup is a compromise.

What are you driving now, Rick?

I'm running into the same issue. I'm semi - retiring the Boss. I've worn my Hans device for years and thankfully never needed it. I don't plan on putting a roll bar in my new car but, I definitely would like greater safety.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[VoodooBoss]

What are you driving now, Rick?

I'm running into the same issue. I'm semi - retiring the Boss. I've worn my Hans device for years and thankfully never needed it. I don't plan on putting a roll bar in my new car but, I definitely would like greater safety.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I have a 2014 Porsche 911 C2S with the sport suspension.

I tried out my new Hybrid S today riding shotgun in a friends Corvette and I was a bit underwhelmed with how it worked. I'm going to call Simpson tomorrow and see it I'm using it correctly. The issue I had is it kept riding up on my shoulders.

 

[Jza1736]

Please keep us updated! If you think it works with the 3 point, I'm buying it.

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[VoodooBoss]

I'll update this thread after I talk to them tomorrow.

 

[ChrisM]

Airbags don't have a lot to do with it I don't think. I was always under the impression the HNR is to protect your neck from whiplash/internal decapitation while wearing a harness. You're going to want that protection if you're wearing a harness regardless of the status of your airbags.

I am otherwise indifferent to companies doing this. I have one because I use a harness. I hope it doesn't hurt their business. As long as it isn't mandated for EVERY company to use them, then people can take their business to a HPDE group that doesn't require them.

 

[JAJ]

The risk you inherently take when you rely on airbags is that they only protect you from the first impact. If your car hits something and stops, then you're fine, but if it hits something, bounces off and hits something else, by the time the second impact happens the airbags will have deflated leaving you free to move around. If you want to bring that set of risks under control, then a HANS-type device and a window net are the best bet.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

If and when it is mandated by some groups, you can bet those Enterprising folks will have some available at the event for rent, and it will likely not be as big an impact as some may fear? In fact , with the proper Marketing, it could be a Sales Tool to promote a group as being the best place to do an HPDE- showing they offer great safety guidelines and offer rental Hans ( or similar devices ) at their events. Heck , knowing DaveW, in our Region, he has so much cool stuff for our NASA and SCCA events , he might even have a little discount for those on site, if this comes out, required, over the next few years?

 

[302BOB]

I was fan of Dale Earnhardt...And I believe he might have survived that terrible crash at Daytona in 2001 if he had the Hans device...He was old school and never even liked a full face helmet. Safety devices are there to save your life, not hinder it, at their tyme of need......who am I to talk...I don't even like wearing seat belts....................

 

[VoodooBoss]

The risk you inherently take when you rely on airbags is that they only protect you from the first impact. If your car hits something and stops, then you're fine, but if it hits something, bounces off and hits something else, by the time the second impact happens the airbags will have deflated leaving you free to move around. If you want to bring that set of risks under control, then a HANS-type device and a window net are the best bet.

I hear this same argument when discussing the Schroth ASM belts. Regardless I recommend calling Schroth and talk to them directly. They are adamant that the ASM is safe when used with stock seats and airbags, especially vs sitting on the sub belts like I did in my Boss 302.

I just got off the phone with Simpson and they said the harness riding up on the shoulders when using a factory three point harness is normal and to just make sure the chest strap is tight. They also stated: DO NOT tighten the tether straps. Leave them as they are shipped and do not adjust them. All that does is pull the harness up further on the shoulders. So I'm fine with the way it worked for me yesterday. My friends Z06 passenger seat belt did not have a lot of tension on it and that could have been part of the problem. Race seats and a harness for the passenger are going in his car soon.

 

[fsvt713]

Has anyone used the SHR Flex HANS from Schroth Racing?

https://www.schrothracing.com/products/shr-flex

I tried one on this past weekend in Mooresville and was impressed with the size and comfort. SFI certified, flexible and light.

Just picked one of these up last weekend. For the larger folk it seems to be the best bet while allowing for some fluctuation in weight and not need to purchase a new one.

 

[scmscout]

I just went thru a crash a few weeks ago, front impact sliding sideways wearing Schroth Quickfit Pro and the Schroth SHR XLT head and neck brace and a full face helmet. The airbag went off. It happened fast but my recollection was is that the airbag just grazed the bottom of my helmet in the chin area. I am 66 years old and the next day I wasn't sore, stiff or anything. Granted it wasn't an 80 MPH impact but probably 35-40 MPH. I have been thinking about it a lot and with the 4 point ASM I feel you should still wear a HANS device. I am not sure the airbags are designed to work properly with you wearing a 4 point harness. Your body is held tight into the seat, just like a 5 or 6 point harness so what happens to your head and neck without a HANS device in a 4 point? Something to think about.