The Mustang Forum for Track & Racing Enthusiasts

Taking your Mustang to an open track/HPDE event for the first time? Do you race competitively? This forum is for you! Log in to remove most ads.

  • Welcome to the Ford Mustang forum built for owners of the Mustang GT350, BOSS 302, GT500, and all other S550, S197, SN95, Fox Body and older Mustangs set up for open track days, road racing, and/or autocross. Join our forum, interact with others, share your build, and help us strengthen this community!

Help me figure out "life after the V6 Mustang" - BRZ, another S197, a Corvette, keep or sell my V6 S197 as a fun DE car???

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

6,362
8,186
The vette is easy.

Who comes up with bonded swaybar bushings and prevailing torque fasteners everywhere? Ford! Who need crazy swivel joints just to get to an exhaust bolt? Ford! Who puts acute angles on the end of factoryperformance swaybar ends nullifying the free movement of adjustable endlinks? Ford! The hits keep coming just when I think I am gaining ground. I admit it I'm just a lowly chevy guy. My new mustang is for sale now. My plan race it until sold or wrecked. I'm even considering dropping it 1000/week until sold. I do not know which is a worse beating.
View attachment 63441
Nice lift, now do it on your back, on asphalt, at VIR.
 
296
349
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
20+ Years
NC
Maybe its time for a new platform. I went from a rather highly modified 2300lb CRX to a relatively stock 3800lb Mustang. Despite doing motorsports since 1987, I find myself still learning. I think I'd call the twins a more of a momentum car than what you are currently driving, which may require a little adjustment. But, they have about a 50/50 weight distribution , should have good aftermarket support, and should be competitive local autocrossers.
 
Of course you would expect a “maybe consider an Ecoboost again” comment from a guy with one but I’ll give it a shot anyways.

They’re cheap, like real cheap. They’re new still so good parts support both oem and aftermarket. With a good tune and basic bolt on’s they aren’t fast but if you’re ok with V6 or BRZ power it’ll be enough for you. They heat soak less than GT’s because they’re making less power. I’ve monitored trans and diff temps on track and so far neither need coolers.

Engine needs an upgraded intercooler and maybe an oil cooler and radiator ducting depending on your ambient temps. Same as any V6 or GT S550.

All this said, consumables on a BRZ will be dirt cheap compared to any of your other options so something worthy of consideration. I track with a lot of S2K guys and their tire cost and lack of going through brakes (relative to our pigs) is very enticing.
 
Last edited:
I see things differently coming from racing C5Z06. I would go back to that in a heartbeat. I have had nothing but pain and big expense from my purchased new 2019 GT gutted into a racecar. This is the worst car I have ever owned from a working on it standpoint and I have worked on cars for 45 years. It is the worst car from an eating consumables standpoint. The vette consumes like a 4 cyl economy car compared to the S550 tire eater. The s550 eats race tires twice as fast as the vette!


My disposable track car is a 2003 C5Z06. I say disposable because I want my track car paid off, I don't want to have to purchase track insurance and if something bad happens I can park it with no drama.

Personally, I would base my track car of choice on factory horsepower first. Unless you are a master engine builder and have the time and skills to do it right, trying to get more horsepower out of a street legal vehicle that is going to be used on track is a recipe for disappointment. The amount of engine failures from shops that are considered "guru's" is shocking. You rarely hear about this because eventually the guy with the "money pit" is going to try and unload the unreliable beast on the next guy. So I make my purchases based on what factory horsepower I want and never crack the engine open (no heads, cams, turbo or supercharger upgrades). I need to make sure the car will stay cool and stay together for a minimum of 25 minute sessions when temps approach 100 degrees. Exhaust and intake upgrades are ok, but if you have a shop crack the engine open to do internal mods, good luck having ANYBODY stand behind the work for a car this essentially doing a 25 minute dyno sessions....five times a day.

I started with a 1999 Mustang with the 4.6 engine....highly modified suspension and drivetrain but stock motor. You cannot hurt that set up (it only had 260 hp) no matter what you did or how hot the ambient temps were. It was a great car and I should have never sold it but kept it so friends could use it at the track. Super easy to drive and super predictable. I wanted more horsepower so I moved up to a C5Z06. Again, highly modified suspension, brakes, drivetrain, etc but engine is bone stock except for the removal of the cats. I still run the stock LS6 manifolds and stock mufflers. It does have lighter weight race seats but also a custom welded roll bar by TC Designs which is probably 50 to 60 lbs (just guessing). It has full interior, working A/C, stereo, etc. With 220 lbs in the seat and a full tank of gas I weigh in at 3384 lbs. I'm on Nitto NT-01 tires and can keep up with Mustang GT350's....except on very long straights where they pull me. And as a driver, I'm by no means fast...the car is definitely faster than my talent.

If I was to do it all over again, I would have saved up for another year or two and gotten into a C6Z06. With the correct suspension, brakes and tires....that car will keep up with Porsche 911 GT3's (if drivers are of equal talent). Once the heads are addressed leave the engine alone...the revving ability of the LS7 makes it a true track monster since you shift less often and it lets you keep up with those pesky PDK's. And the C6Z06 is even lighter than my car. It's easy to get a full interior C6Z06 under the 3000 lb mark with 505 factory horsepower.

If I was going for a new platform with a full factory warranty, you cannot beat the Camaro SS 1LE platform. Aftermarket parts availability is absolutely huge and if you want to play with the motor, nothing is cheaper than LS parts. How GM made those cars handle so well at their weight is impressive. Being a four seater, you can even haul kids around if you needed to. I personally like the looks of the new Mustang much better, but for a very track focused car, I'd stay with the Camaro. If you have a higher dollar budget, then the C7 Grand Sport is top dog IMO.

Personally, I feel a track car (for HPDE's) that weighs over 3000 lbs has to have at least 400 horsepower to keep me interested. I really try to keep the weight low as it really helps with consumables and overall reliability on the track.

If the stock horsepower of a BRZ will keep you happy, then it would make a very fun track car. I've tracked with a few Miatas that had just over 170 hp and full aero and wings that I was barely able to match in track times. Talk about a package with very low consumable costs.

Good luck on whatever choice you make!!
 
531
364
sfo
My disposable track car is a 2003 C5Z06.

Personally, I would base my track car of choice on factory horsepower first. Unless you are a master engine builder and have the time and skills to do it right, trying to get more horsepower out of a street legal vehicle that is going to be used on track is a recipe for disappointment. The amount of engine failures from shops that are considered "guru's" is shocking.

keep up with those pesky PDK's.

If I could swap you for your old C5Z and some cash for my new 2019 GT with 1500miles on the chassis I would go for it! I sold my C5 because of all the engine guru idiots! It took me 3 motoers to get one that worked. I blew up at my indy race after 5 race weekends. once I towed to midohio and it was a $10k week and I could not race because the new off the dyno motor oiled the guys behind me! That's why I race the GT because I can buy Ford crate motors. I like the GT I just hate working on it. I'm litterally in pain after I finish a job. The A10 is pretty amazing shift faster than the PDK in the 1st 5 gears. I wanted autobox reliability but in a pdk. The A10 was it. So far so good with giant cooler from the start. Flyhalf on the other hand is o his 3rd A10 but I skipped some of his problems by taking his advice and going to giant coolers. The other problem with Ford is poor development of the GT. Lots of idiots out there making stuff that just does not work. So guys like Flyhalf and I are dumping trashcans of money into our GTs to make them fast.

So you wanna trade cars?
 

Ludachris

Chris
Staff member
Moderator
1,658
1,962
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Newcastle, CA
Well If you read what I wrote and think I'm anti-pheonix... sorry that was not my intention. Sometimes things written get taken the wrong way. Oh well...I guess I'll leave now for the flyfishing forum.
Just to play mediator here - I think what he's saying is that the rumor you're sharing is a very strong accusation to make in a forum where some of those competitors/racers hang out and lurk - even if it's just in the form of sharing what you heard from some unnamed person. AJ is disputing that rumor and you're treating it as if it's true and are congratulating the team in a back-handed manner for doing it and not getting in trouble for it. Might not have been the intention, but that's how it comes across. Sharing the rumor helps it spread even more. Now someone else is going to share what they heard from a member on TMO. ;)
 
531
364
sfo
Just to play mediator here - I think what he's saying is that the rumor you're sharing is a very strong accusation to make in a forum where some of those competitors/racers hang out and lurk - even if it's just in the form of sharing what you heard from some unnamed person. AJ is disputing that rumor and you're treating it as if it's true and are congratulating the team in a back-handed manner for doing it and not getting in trouble for it. Might not have been the intention, but that's how it comes across. Sharing the rumor helps it spread even more. Now someone else is going to share what they heard from a member on TMO. ;)


Well I guess I can see your point. I'm not here to denigrate anyone. Sorry if it is taken that way. Maybe the mods can just delete my post? At least it won't hang around forever and then can't be searched for. I don't know what else to do?
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
7,530
5,247
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Illinois
I don't know what else to do?
Bob

Just do what I do when I give myself a case of athletes tongue (Foot in Mouth). Apologize as needed and move on. The membership here has "Big Shoulders". Try to be positive.
 

Ludachris

Chris
Staff member
Moderator
1,658
1,962
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Newcastle, CA
Well I guess I can see your point. I'm not here to denigrate anyone. Sorry if it is taken that way. Maybe the mods can just delete my post? At least it won't hang around forever and then can't be searched for. I don't know what else to do?
It happens to the best of us, and I'm sure you honestly didn't mean anything by it. I can remove it for you, not a problem.

Edit - I just removed that post and the subsequent replies to it to clean things up a bit.
 

Duane Black

Curbs go brrrppp
567
401
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Durham, NC
Wellll I had an opportunity at a Corvette test drive at VIR. I liked it, but didnt love it. This one was very tire limited on its Conti Extreme Contacts. @Apex3V was along for a ride. It was an easier car to drive, the front and rear seem to work together much better and the car felt more in the track than a Mustang. Driving a car like a Mustang that doesn't want to be driven hard and making it your b*tch has a certain thrill to it.

And btw, i was slower in the corvette than my v6 muscrat due to the tires... that Corvette on a 200tw was easily a sub 2:10 car...
 

racer47

Still winning after 30+ years
392
497
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
SE WI
Wellll I had an opportunity at a Corvette test drive at VIR. I liked it, but didnt love it...
The C7 is a hard platform to beat. It has a lot going for it. Less weight. Less nose weight. Lower cg. Better front geometry, SLA ipo struts. Easy to fit big tires. Good power and easy to make more.

I've driven them and like them. Its just that being a Ford guy, its really hard to just give in a buy a vette but I do like beating them.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
I always remember someone who said the following about Porsche's, You can’t make a thoroughbred from a pig, but you can make a awfully fast pig! I guess the Mustang has had a lot of time and effort put into it to become a pretty fast Hog.
 
I know this one wasn’t on your list but did you consider a used boxter/cayman??? I know they don’t have the grunt of the mustang or vette but I bet it would be a heck of a lot of fun straight out of the box and there is tons of aftermarket support for them and I don’t think it would be to much more expensive parts wise as our s197s. Just a thought
 

TMO Supporting Vendors

Top