The Mustang Forum for Track & Racing Enthusiasts

Taking your Mustang to an open track/HPDE event for the first time? Do you race competitively? This forum is for you! Log in to remove most ads.

  • Welcome to the Ford Mustang forum built for owners of the Mustang GT350, BOSS 302, GT500, and all other S550, S197, SN95, Fox Body and older Mustangs set up for open track days, road racing, and/or autocross. Join our forum, interact with others, share your build, and help us strengthen this community!

Help: Steering Problem - 2012 Boss 302

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

domesticpower

Track Addict
190
135
NS
EDIT: I forgot to mention that, for what it's worth, the problem seems to occur more frequently on hotter days. I have no idea how heat could be an issue that Ford didn't run into, considering that I live in Nova Scotia, Canada and Ford did a lot of testing in California and I know I am far from the skill level of Ford's test drivers so I don't push as hard. The hottest it was while I was at the track was 27 deg C/79 deg F. It is the only thing that I am able to consistently relate to the problem though. My only guess is that because Laguna Seca is a faster track than the one I go to and I don't push the car as far, the car doesn't see as much airflow and heat builds up more under the hood.

Scroll to the bottom for a summary.

I have a 2012 Boss 302 and it randomly counter steers in the middle of a turn. It has done it in the middle of slalom exercises and at the end of accident avoidance exercises at HPDE (while the car is going 10 mph (15 km/h)) and in the middle of track sessions. As the steering wheel is turned in one direction, I feel the steering wheel tug very strongly in the opposite direction for only about half a second and then goes back. I don't know if it's AdvanceTrac malfunctioning and counter steering or it's a power steering problem. The car is never out of shape when it happens and tires aren't even be close to squealing (I have street tires that give a lot of warning at the limit). It has gone so far as to steer me into a skid off the track which could have easily caused a crash. It has happened with me and a couple of other driving instructors driving the car, with stability control on and off, and with the silver key and the track key.

I have gone to the dealership 3 times for this. The first time, when there were codes, they replaced the steering rack. The codes were C1B00 and U300. The second two times there were no codes and they didn't do anything. They said it was stability control counter steering to get the car back in shape, despite the fact that the car was not out of shape and it happens with stability control completely turned off. Every time it happens, the stability control active and traction control off lights come up on the dash and stay on but they go away once the car is turned off and back on.

The third time they said it was the track key... here is the paragraph they referenced from the track key document:

"Note: The Electric Power Assist Steering (EPAS) unit varies the electric power steering assist according to the vehicle speed message sent out on the network from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). While the set-point is being changed, the PCM is sending a false vehicle speed message to the instrument cluster so that the driver can select the desired set-point. The EPAS unit will interpret this as actual vehicle speed and can move the steering wheel suddenly if it is turned slightly. Consequently it is recommended to have the steering wheel pointing straight ahead prior to entering the Pit Lane Speed Control set mode. Note also that if the parking brake is engaged, the cluster will ding because the vehicle believes it is in motion. If the auto door lock feature is activated, the doors will lock as well."

I tried to explain to them what this actually meant but they were completely convinced that what I feel is the EPAS varying assist as a function of the track key...

I contacted Ford customer service, they opened a case and assigned me a customer service manager but they were no help. I was told that what's happening is because of suspension tuning, since the car is a street car and not a race car. I tried to tell them that I know of other Boss 302 owners that don't have the problem on the track but they stuck to their statement. I am no suspension expert but I have no idea how any kind of suspension tuning causes the car to counter steer briefly, especially when it is going 10 mph (15 km/h), while all 4 wheels are on the ground. If that is possible, I hope someone can explain it to me so that I can fix it.

I bought the Ford Racing steering rack - M-3200-EPAS - and installed it in hope that the problem is from the OEM rack and that didn't help.

The car has a Fays2 Watt's link and 285/35/18 Cont. Ext. Contact DW tires on 18x9.5 TSW Nurb. (40 off.) wheels at all four corners.

This is getting so frustrating that I am considering selling the car. Any help would be appreciated.

Summary
I have a 2012 Boss 302 and it car counter steer randomly in the middle of a turn at the track. It has done it in the middle of slalom exercises and at the end of accident avoidance exercises at HPDE (while the car is going 10 mph (15 km/h)) and in the middle of track sessions. As the steering wheel is turned in one direction, I feel the steering wheel tug very strongly in the opposite direction for only about half a second and then it goes back to normal. It has gone so far as steer me off the track and into a skid.

The dealership was no help and I contacted Ford customer service and they were no help either. They both came up with explanation that didn't make sense to me (above). The car stored codes once, C1B00 and U300. Every time it happens, the stability control active and traction control off lights come up on the dash and stay on but they go away once the car is turned off and back on and it stores no codes. It has happened with me and a couple of other driving instructors driving the car, with stability control on and off, and with the silver key and the track key.

I bought the Ford Racing steering rack - M-3200-EPAS - and installed it in hope that the problem is from the OEM rack and that didn't help.

The car has a Fays2 Watt's link and 285/35/18 Cont. Ext. Contact DW tires on 18x9.5 TSW Nurb. (40 off.) wheels at all four corners but is otherwise stock.

This is getting so frustrating that I am considering selling the car. Any help would be appreciated.
 

steveespo

Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child
Moderator
4,008
1,924
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Cookeville TN
Clockspring steering position sensor may be bad or wiring fault there, problem with a wheel speed sensor could also cause false readings to the Advance Track which is trying to correct a problem that isn't there. This is a dangerous fault, and you should not track the car until corrected. You need a Ford Service rep to get involved to make the Dealer perform the more advanced diagnostic protocols to check the whole system for faults, sensors, wiring and modules. Dealers don't want to do this because it's very time consuming and they don't make much on warranty work.
Good luck with it.
Steve
 

domesticpower

Track Addict
190
135
NS
steveespo said:
Clockspring steering position sensor may be bad or wiring fault there, problem with a wheel speed sensor could also cause false readings to the Advance Track which is trying to correct a problem that isn't there. This is a dangerous fault, and you should not track the car until corrected. You need a Ford Service rep to get involved to make the Dealer perform the more advanced diagnostic protocols to check the whole system for faults, sensors, wiring and modules. Dealers don't want to do this because it's very time consuming and they don't make much on warranty work.
Good luck with it.
Steve

I agree it is very dangerous. I have been going back with possible fixes but non helped.

I got a Ford Service rep involved and they didn't help. The car won't store any codes after the ignition key is recycled so they are convinced that what I am feeling is normal and they are trying to give reasons why it is normal. I asked them if they would help if I recorded a video/took a picture showing the day's date on a newspaper and that the advance track light is on solid on the dashboard which, according to the manual, means there is a malfunction and they said no. They have to be able to pull codes to do something.

EDIT: Do you know how I could check for electrical faults or at least rule out a few electrical systems based on what is happening? I can't help but think that it is an electrical or programming fault, especially after seeing a recent recall on Escapes and/or Explorers with (I believe) faulty steering angle sensors. Thanks.
 
I have a similar setup in my 2012. I have never had a steering input or anything but have had these lights if driving with traction control completely off and you get those lights then it is an indication that there was a traction event while driving that turns the TC back on. It is very frustrating as you have to stop the car to turn it back off again. This is why many of us have gone to the race ABS module.
The lights eventually go off after a few laps or cycling the car ignition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

domesticpower

Track Addict
190
135
NS
Moto said:
I have a similar setup in my 2012. I have never had a steering input or anything but have had these lights if driving with traction control completely off and you get those lights then it is an indication that there was a traction event while driving that turns the TC back on. It is very frustrating as you have to stop the car to turn it back off again. This is why many of us have gone to the race ABS module.
The lights eventually go off after a few laps or cycling the car ignition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea, but the stability control active light (stability control symbol) is supposed to flash when it is intervening and then go away. If it comes on and stays on solid then there is a malfunction, at least according to the manual. There is another light which is the stability control symbol with "OFF" under it which lights up if you turn it off or, according to the manual, if it is turned off by the module due to a fault. Both lights come on and stay on when it occurs, assuming stability is left on by me. If stability was already off, the stability control off light is already on and the stability control active light comes on and stays on.
 
centri5.0 said:
Stock ABS module with 302s rack? I am assuming since the rack did not help: Could be wheel speed sensor problem, abs module programming issue, or as Steve described above. I had similar issues for awhile. Disconnected wheel speed sensor, at my own peril, and car felt entirely predictable. But, I wanted ABS, so ended up with the boss 302s abs module. Happy camper ever since, plus now I have hill start assist. Bonus!

I am no expert, just sharing my experiences.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk
 

domesticpower

Track Addict
190
135
NS
centri5.0 said:
Stock ABS module with 302s rack? I am assuming since the rack did not help: Could be wheel speed sensor problem, abs module programming issue, or as Steve described above. I had similar issues for awhile. Disconnected wheel speed sensor, at my own peril, and car felt entirely predictable. But, I wanted ABS, so ended up with the boss 302s abs module. Happy camper ever since, plus now I have hill start assist. Bonus!

I am no expert, just sharing my experiences.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk
Any suggestions are much appreciated! This is extremely frustrating and I just want to find a solution.

I do have the FRPP rack without the module, but the problem was present while I had the stock rack. When you had similar issues, did you feel a strong tug on the steering wheel? It literally feels like someone grabbed hold of the steering wheel and very strongly yanked it out of your hand and then let go. It doesn't simply feel like stability control kicking in when it is supposed to be off.
 
Yup, it was as if when I hit a specific yaw rate/slip angle that it would take over and felt as though I was fighting the steering wheel. Never happened in straight line scenarios. That was with stabilitrak and tc turned completely off. It wouldn't pull steering completely from me, but would apply brakes to tires independently of one another, thereby pulling car 1 way or another.. Unplugged wheel speed sensor, and car was instantly better. Programming issue in there, but I dont know how to fix it. So, 302s abs module went in and I never looked back. On a side note, there are tons of cars that have zero issues with this, and run with their stock module and their esp/tc never intervenes when turned off.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk
 
Just thought I'd chime in on this. I'm also from Canada - BC.

After swapping over to 285/35/19 MPSS on all corners I have experienced the same issues you describe - maybe not as dramatic as "someone grabbing my steering wheel and yanking it"... but its a pull/deflection/interference/wobble in the opposite direction I'm steering & noticed it more after new pads - Its happening usually at the end of sweeping corners and easily replicated in the long, full clock turn hwy ramps. Its happened at medium speeds and even at 160 kmph (VERY scary experience) I describe it as a wobble or deflection feeling in the front wheels. So my first reaction was to replace the front LCA bushings thinking they could be deflecting mid corner. That did not solve my problem but was a very nice upgrade. So I went and installed tall ball joints & bumpsteer kit since my car is lowered and wanted to correct the geometry thinking it could fix the issue... and it didn't. It is very hard to describe whats going on and it happens randomly. I've done canyon runs driving very, very spirited with no issues and other times where it does it when I least expect it to happen! I want to say it happens more when its colder out but I've also had it happen in the warmer summer days with tires warm. Again, very hard to diagnose. I always run with Sport mode or Traction control off ( single click )

On my last autoX session I decided to try different TC modes and found the run went MUCH smoother with TC & AdvTrac ALL the way off (hold down brake & TC button for 5 seconds) UNTIL one aggressive turn something got very, VERY pissed off at me and the TC & AdvTrac lights lit solid and would not turn off until I turned off my car!

This confirmed for me its most likely the TC system, specifically Advance Trac causing issues. I've been told the rack - M-3200-EPAS - is the same as stock rack but programmed for big and / or high grip tires / racing slicks so it was my next course of action for the potential "fix"... but it seems like you have the same issues I've had and the rack didn't help you. So its gotta be the ABS module which is M-2353-CA or M-2353-B

I was hoping the rack would fix it because there are times you do wish to keep the traction system especially on a car which is street driven or dual purpose..... But in this case once you modify suspension and tires the computer is simply just not coded for it and is probably indeed for street / hwy compliance limits. If the car is trying to kill me because of traction control interference It would be safer to just fully get rid of it anyways... besides, older vehicles didn't have traction systems and they do just fine. I'll be getting the module and hopefully that shuts up the angry nannies once and for all.


^ curious if the M-3200-EPAS rack made any difference for you in terms of feeling over the stock one? Since its still a fully reprogrammed rack.. Just curious if it was a worthy upgrade over the stock piece and would you do it again ?
 

domesticpower

Track Addict
190
135
NS
korrax said:
Just thought I'd chime in on this. I'm also from Canada - BC.

After swapping over to 285/35/19 MPSS on all corners I have experienced the same issues you describe - maybe not as dramatic as "someone grabbing my steering wheel and yanking it"... but its a pull/deflection/interference/wobble in the opposite direction I'm steering & noticed it more after new pads - Its happening usually at the end of sweeping corners and easily replicated in the long, full clock turn hwy ramps. Its happened at medium speeds and even at 160 kmph (VERY scary experience) I describe it as a wobble or deflection feeling in the front wheels. So my first reaction was to replace the front LCA bushings thinking they could be deflecting mid corner. That did not solve my problem but was a very nice upgrade. So I went and installed tall ball joints & bumpsteer kit since my car is lowered and wanted to correct the geometry thinking it could fix the issue... and it didn't. It is very hard to describe whats going on and it happens randomly. I've done canyon runs driving very, very spirited with no issues and other times where it does it when I least expect it to happen! I want to say it happens more when its colder out but I've also had it happen in the warmer summer days with tires warm. Again, very hard to diagnose. I always run with Sport mode or Traction control off ( single click )

On my last autoX session I decided to try different TC modes and found the run went MUCH smoother with TC & AdvTrac ALL the way off (hold down brake & TC button for 5 seconds) UNTIL one aggressive turn something got very, VERY pissed off at me and the TC & AdvTrac lights lit solid and would not turn off until I turned off my car!

This confirmed for me its most likely the TC system, specifically Advance Trac causing issues. I've been told the rack - M-3200-EPAS - is the same as stock rack but programmed for big and / or high grip tires / racing slicks so it was my next course of action for the potential "fix"... but it seems like you have the same issues I've had and the rack didn't help you. So its gotta be the ABS module which is M-2353-CA or M-2353-B

I was hoping the rack would fix it because there are times you do wish to keep the traction system especially on a car which is street driven or dual purpose..... But in this case once you modify suspension and tires the computer is simply just not coded for it and is probably indeed for street / hwy compliance limits. If the car is trying to kill me because of traction control interference It would be safer to just fully get rid of it anyways... besides, older vehicles didn't have traction systems and they do just fine. I'll be getting the module and hopefully that shuts up the angry nannies once and for all.


^ curious if the M-3200-EPAS rack made any difference for you in terms of feeling over the stock one? Since its still a fully reprogrammed rack.. Just curious if it was a worthy upgrade over the stock piece and would you do it again ?

The problem I was having turned out to have nothing to do with the nannies. I had an oil catch can and it's one of the bigger ones that mount to something as opposed to just hang by the tubing. The bolt where this one mounted to had the ground of the steering rack attached on the bottom and turning sometimes resulted in the catch can tilting just enough to move the bolt and, therefore, the EPAS ground which cut power steering. I'm very blessed to not have had a crash, although going off the track was a very close call. I've switched to a smaller catch can and haven't had that problem since.

I think the problem you're having is tire deflection/roll over which has nothing to do with stability control either. I've experienced the same, judging by how you describe it and I also have MPSS. MPSS is the best street driven track tire IMO but one of its few downsides is the relatively soft sidewall. What happens is that the tire rolls over too much and you go beyond the shoulder and start driving on the sidewall.

Are your wheels stock or aftermarket? If aftermarket, how wide? The stock 9" wheel is too narrow for a 285 tire, especially on a heavy car like ours. You're bound to get too much tire deflection. You should go to at least a 9.5" wheel, if not 10". You should also look at camber if you're stock. I went to -2.0 deg last season and the car improved immensely. I plan on going to -2.5 deg. If you're doing autoX'ing, I would probably even try going to -3.0. I think going to a wider wheel and adding camber should take care of the problem.

A quick and easy fix, though, until you can get to upgrading parts can be increasing your tire pressure, if you aren't already high. I found MPSS to get greasy relatively quickly into a session if hot pressure is above 40, probably due to a lot of deflection from the relatively soft sidewalls and, therefore, a lot of heat. I run 30 psi cold which takes me to around 38-39 psi hot by the end of the session. If you're like me, try raising cold pressure to reduce deflection, just be aware of when the tires get greasy and take a couple cool down laps or pit for a few mins when they get greasy.

Finally, was the steering rack worth it? Depends on your budget. If you have $10k to spend, it's great. I felt better feedback (although it wasn't enough to rule out being in my head), it future proofs the car if you run into the shaking problem when upgrading the bushings, and it gets rid of steering nannies. If your budget is a few grand, then there are much better things to spend your money on.

Hope all of this helps.

On a different note, I'll probably get stoned for saying this (lol) but I always recommend people leave stability on, unless you are racing (not going for lapping, HPDE's or time attacks) or prepared and financially able to fix or replace your car and any other you may crash into if you spin out. Traction control should be off once you have a decent handle at high performance driving because it will overheat your rear brakes and wear them too fast, plus you'll never learn to properly control the throttle. Stability, though, gives a safety net that isn't too bad with traction off and TracKey in. It'll allow some yaw before cutting in, just won't let you drift, and unless you're doing something stupid, it'll save your bottom the vast majority of the time.
 
Which kind of catch can is it? I also have the bigger one (Bobs) which is attached to the STB area but I'm almost certain I had the issue happen before the can was installed.
My wheels are 9.5 x 19 and MPSS are 285/35/19. They are almost roast anyways and I'll be getting RE11 or NT05 / something in the 200TW category this time round. I'm pretty sure the MPSS are the issue and hope it isn't AdvTrac.

Either way, I'll take it easy on the road til these tires are roast and I'll post again once I get new wheels and Tires on and test.
 

domesticpower

Track Addict
190
135
NS
korrax said:
Which kind of catch can is it? I also have the bigger one (Bobs) which is attached to the STB area but I'm almost certain I had the issue happen before the can was installed.
My wheels are 9.5 x 19 and MPSS are 285/35/19. They are almost roast anyways and I'll be getting RE11 or NT05 / something in the 200TW category this time round. I'm pretty sure the MPSS are the issue and hope it isn't AdvTrac.

Either way, I'll take it easy on the road til these tires are roast and I'll post again once I get new wheels and Tires on and test.

The one I replaced was a UPR catch can. The new one is a JLT. By STB, do you mean shock tower brace? To be honest, after what I experienced, I'd never trust any thing that attaches where wiring is, even if it isn't causing any trouble now. IIRC, there were two bolts under the tower brace and both are used as grounds.

Most people I talk to at our local track recommend Bridgestones over Nittos so if I were you, I'd take the RE-11's. With that said, the RE-71R seem to be better. They rival lap times put down on DOT track tires at our local track during timed events. The RE-71R will probably be my next tire. Good luck whichever way you go.
 

TMO Supporting Vendors

Top