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Here goes my MASSIVE learning curve

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18
12
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Ladson South Carolina
Let me start off by saying hope everyone is safe during covid. Safety first right?

My name is Christian. New to the forums but not quite so new to the mustang world. I've owned one 2011 v6 mustang and have finally recently been able to upgrade to a 2014 mustang gt; dream car to me since I've always wanted an american muscle car with a stick instead of the bmws and porsches I've been exposed to having been born in germany (not that they are bad cars by any means). I've recently been able to get more and more into building my car towards the end goal of a weekend HPDE car but for now it seems primarily 90 percent of its life on public roads. My goal with the car are to make it a stout daily driver that performs well on road course events. On my last session at carolina motorsports park last October I've found the steering responsiveness to be less than confident inspiring going into and out of corners, but more on that in a bit. Currently the car has the following mods:

Steeda upper adjustable control arm
Whiteline front and rear adjustable sway bars with adjustable end links
Whiteline rear control arms
Koni adjustable yellow shocks and struts
Steeda ultra lite springs
Gt500 strut mounts
Boss 302 mid pipe
Shorty headers
Stock cats
Resonator delete
Sve gt500 quad axelback
Whiteline adjustable panhard bar and brace
3.73 rear gears
Barton short throw shifter assembly
Ferrodo pads
Hancook ventus v12 evo tires
Brembo brakes

Recently ive been wanting to tackle the task of either upgrading or replacing my mt82. The oem trans currently chirps going into 2nd on upshifts and sometimes into fifth as well. I've considered either the ben calimer route for a stage 1 or 2, or the tr6060 route. I'm currently leaning towards the ben calimer stage 1 trans along with one piece driveshaft, blowfish bracket, and mgw shifter assembly as well. I'm looking to get more info on recommendations for clutch, flywheel, and pressure plate options for this set up. So that would be the first question. What set up do you recommend for a car that spends 90% of it's life on public roads, although driven spiritedly, and the occasional one to two events at an HPDE course a year. I'd like to keep driveability within a reasonable amount, although I would not be opposed to a more performance oriented setup.

Second question is as follows. Currently my front lower control arms are stock and I'd like to upgrade these as well. I've considered the boss 302 control arms and bump steer kit offered by steeda. Has anyone used this setup? Recommendations? Feedback? Input?

Future parts for the car are as follows: boss 302 intake manifold, long tube headers, appropriate cold air intake, required tune as well as a decent set of tires and forged wheels.

I'm looking forward to learning more about the sport and hope to make a lot of friends along the way. Any and ALL input is greatly appreciated, since as stated I'm quite new to this world of auto sports. Thanks for reading! Cheers!

I have a somewhat decent knowledge about working on cars and terminology, although most of the bigger projects will be done by a reputable shop here in Charleston sc.

So here I go. Fire away! And thank you for any and all input!

IMG_20210223_130407853.jpg
 

JDee

Ancient Racer
1,797
2,001
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
5 miles from Mosport
Welcome to the forum Christian. You will get lots of advice here.

Replacing the MT82 with a Tremec is an expensive proposition, I think a Calimer stage 1 or 2 MT-82 will be more cost effective and likely provide you with a good service life. I'm just in the process of having my MT82 rebuilt, it was far less expensive to do that than a Tremec upgrade. Tremecs don't last forever either and are not immune to needing rebuilds. For sure though you need a good clutch, the stock clutch is just not up to the task for track work. Exedy makes very good clutches and are a popular choice, I have a Hyper Single but it is a racing clutch and possibly not the best choice for a street driven car.

One thing you need most right now I don't think you mentioned, and that is a good set of track wheels and tires. I see you have the Ford OEM track pack wheels, they are heavy and nowhere near wide enough. I would line up a set of light aftermarket wheels such as those from Apex and decent track tires. 18X11 square if you think you might run take off slicks, or 19 X 11 square wrapped in a good set of 305/30 DOT legal 200TW tires, of which there are many to choose from. You'll need spacers of 20-25mm on the front, you can find the number you need by using washers to simulate a spacer and measure the clearance to the strut. Keep the OEM stuff for your street driving only.

Lastly, you've done a lot of upgrades already, once you get some decent wheels/tires I would suggest you invest your time/money into getting seat time. There's no substitute for that.
 
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18
12
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Ladson South Carolina
Welcome to the forum Christian. You will get lots of advice here.

Replacing the MT82 with a Tremec is an expensive proposition, I think a Calimer stage 1 or 2 MT-82 will be more cost effective and likely provide you with a good service life. I'm just in the process of having my MT82 rebuilt, it was far less expensive to do that a Tremec upgrade. Tremecs don't last forever either and are not immune to needing rebuilds. For sure though you need a good clutch, the stock clutch is just not up to the task for track work. Exedy makes very good clutches and are a popular choice, I have a Hyper Single but it is a racing clutch and possibly not the best choice for a street driven car.

One thing you need most right now I don't think you mentioned, and that is a good set of track wheels and tires. I see you have the Ford OEM track pack wheels, they are heavy and nowhere near wide enough. I would line up a set of light aftermarket wheels such as those from Apex and decent track tires. 18X11 square if you think you might run take off slicks, or 19 X 11 square wrapped in a good set of 305/30 DOT legal 200TW tires, of which there are many to choose from. You'll need spacers of 20-25mm on the front, you can find the number you need by using washers to simulate a spacer and measure the clearance to the strut. Keep the OEM stuff for your street driving only.

Lastly, you've done a lot of upgrades already, once you get some decent wheels/tires I would suggest you invest your time/money into getting seat time. There's no substitute for that.
Firstly thank you so much for the reply! I was somewhat worried newbies like myself wouldn't get much attention in the way of thread responses.

Seat time. Yes. Definitely. I've heard that, tires and brakes along with proper brake fluid is a must for any beginner. On my first hpde event at carolina motorsports park we changed the brake fluid to the motul 600 as well as ferrodo pads ( a good friends suggestion, he tracks his car way more than I do). I've been looking for a set of forged wheels and that is definitely on my next to do list as I felt the tires I ran and the stock wheels left A LOT to be desired in terms of grip. Unfortunately at the moment I'll only be able to attend track events at least (maybe most) once per year. My primary interest in the trans change is due to the chirps and habits my mt82 has developed, and honestly, I don't feel confident running the stock trans and clutch setup on another track event as I feel it would cripple my current daily if I did.

As per the front control arms, I feel the car is currently very sloppy in turns, and compared to my friends slightly more modded car it's not as corner friendly or nearly as confident inspiring; plus the bushings in the control arms in the front need to be replaced anyways.
 
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6,363
8,187
Welcome..
and congrats for not putting a Watts link on it
Also control arms go east and west
Trailing/ leading arms go north and south.
Rims are not wheels

lol
J/K.. have fun
 

JDee

Ancient Racer
1,797
2,001
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
5 miles from Mosport
I've been looking for a set of forged wheels and that is definitely on my next to do list as I felt the tires I ran and the stock wheels left A LOT to be desired in terms of grip.

Just noticed this one other thing. Forged wheels are hyper-expensive and likely not really a good investment for an HPDE guy. Typically that's the type of wheel hard core road racers would buy. Most aftermarket wheels these days are flow formed, though some manufacturers call them flow forged. They are far more affordable for the average guy and they are lighter and better than the cast wheels used by OEMs. For example, the Forgeline GS1R in 19X11 are $1665 USD per wheel, that's a very popular forged wheel and I think it's the one that is used on the Mustang GT4. You can get an entire set of flow formed 19X11 for the price of one forged wheel.

And Blacksheep-1 has forgotten more about race cars than I ever knew. He works with pro teams so he knows the scoop.
 
1,289
1,113
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Philly Metro Area
If you don't already have them, I HIGHLY recommend that you get brake cooling ducts. I use the Vorshlag inlet ducts designed for the 13-14 GT and their 3" oval backing plates.

However, it looks like you have a GT500 bumper cover so I'm not sure if the inlet ducts will work with it.

Real forged wheels are expensive. The Apex wheels such as the EC-7 or SM-10 are flow-formed. They are strong but not as expensive.

Just because your handling feels sloppy doesn't automatically mean your LCA bushings must be replaced. It could be other things. You may want adjustable castor/camber plates or at least the Steeda HD mounts that will let you adjust your camber. That along with the wider tires will help.
 
18
12
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Ladson South Carolina
Just noticed this one other thing. Forged wheels are hyper-expensive and likely not really a good investment for an HPDE guy. Typically that's the type of wheel hard core road racers would buy. Most aftermarket wheels these days are flow formed, though some manufacturers call them flow forged. They are far more affordable for the average guy and they are lighter and better than the cast wheels used by OEMs. For example, the Forgeline GS1R in 19X11 are $1665 USD per wheel, that's a very popular forged wheel and I think it's the one that is used on the Mustang GT4. You can get an entire set of flow formed 19X11 for the price of one forged wheel.

And Blacksheep-1 has forgotten more about race cars than I ever knew. He works with pro teams so he knows the scoop.
Ah. Apologies. Used the wrong term on my end then. I meant flow forged. I've been looking at apex wheels quite a bit as well as project 6gr wheels.

And I've seen black sheep post quite a bit in these forums. I appreciate the sarcasm. My reply to his was simply to add more humor. I'm german so humor doesn't come easy lol.
 
18
12
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Ladson South Carolina
If you don't already have them, I HIGHLY recommend that you get brake cooling ducts. I use the Vorshlag inlet ducts designed for the 13-14 GT and their 3" oval backing plates.

However, it looks like you have a GT500 bumper cover so I'm not sure if the inlet ducts will work with it.

Real forged wheels are expensive. The Apex wheels such as the EC-7 or SM-10 are flow-formed. They are strong but not as expensive.

Just because your handling feels sloppy doesn't automatically mean your LCA bushings must be replaced. It could be other things. You may want adjustable castor/camber plates or at least the Steeda HD mounts that will let you adjust your camber. That along with the wider tires will help.
Agreed. It doesn't necessarily mean they need to be replaced, however recently while I was under the car doing maintenance and my general inspection, I noticed the bushings have tears in them. So I'd like to upgrade them for something that's more recommended for the sport.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,355
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Wilkommen,

I agree with JDee that your next step should be bigger rims and larger ( and better ) tires. Regardless if you are born in the US or born in Deutschland , it is very common that newcomers to the track spend all their money on mods similar to yours , and they neglect the #1 thing to make the car quicker on a road course ---tires! The second thing to improve time is the braking system and initially that can be more aggressive brake pads , better rotors ( two piece ) , high temp racing fluid ( DOT 4 like Motul ), and brake ducting.

Please feel free to ask plenty of questions, TMO members are here to help and don't take Blacksheep 1 seriously about his comment on wheels and rims , he corrects all of the Motorheads who say that , not just those from Germany. There is plenty of good natured ribbing on this site, but it is always just for fun and many of us have become very good fruends.

Auf Wiedersehen,

Bill Pemberton
 
18
12
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Ladson South Carolina
Wilkommen,

I agree with JDee that your next step should be bigger rims and larger ( and better ) tires. Regardless if you are born in the US or born in Deutschland , it is very common that newcomers to the track spend all their money on mods similar to yours , and they neglect the #1 thing to make the car quicker on a road course ---tires! The second thing to improve time is the braking system and initially that can be more aggressive brake pads , better rotors ( two piece ) , high temp racing fluid ( DOT 4 like Motul ), and brake ducting.

Please feel free to ask plenty of questions, TMO members are here to help and don't take Blacksheep 1 seriously about his comment on wheels and rims , he corrects all of the Motorheads who say that , not just those from Germany. There is plenty of good natured ribbing on this site, but it is always just for fun and many of us have become very good fruends.

Auf Wiedersehen,

Bill Pemberton
Hallo! Nice to see someone else on here that speaks german!

Tires- definitely! I'm currently on the look out for stronger wheels and better tires as well. I'd like to keep the 19x10 offset on a wheel choice I'm currently interested in. Are there any tires you could recommend that perform well for daily and the occasional annual track use?

Brakes- my car came equipped with brembos from factory, however since then we've changed the brake fluid (before the first track session) to motul 600. I'm also wanting to change to steel brake lines as well as I've heard the stock clutch lines and brake lines need improving. I'd like to change the rotors as well since they performed ok during my first session but could use more bite from feedback in the first session. Which rotors would you recommend work well for a dual duty car? Pads? Currently I have the ferrodo pads. They're noisy, but I'm not complaining about the squealing since I'm assuming that comes with the nature of more track oriented pads.

And of course I don't mind the occasional jokes. Can't be all business right? Lol
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,355
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
The 18x11s work especially well on S197s and you will need to get 25mm spacers for the front, but their are more choices in 18 inch tires. The addition of ARP long studs are also necessary , but many who race tell you the longer studs should be put on any Mustang that is track a lot because they are so much stronger than the stock studs. Especially true for those of us who think the curbing is there to drive over launching our cars in the air sometimes , but often the straightest line to the next corner, ha.

Many have found, after they bought the 18x11 rims that there were quite a few used Michelin and Pirelli race tires available ( from various sources ) at low prices , so they would run an HPDE on used slicks.There are more and more 19s appearing, but they are often sizes that are too wide to fit comfortably on our cars.
 
18
12
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Ladson South Carolina
The 18x11s work especially well on S197s and you will need to get 25mm spacers for the front, but their are more choices in 18 inch tires. The addition of ARP long studs are also necessary , but many who race tell you the longer studs should be put on any Mustang that is track a lot because they are so much stronger than the stock studs. Especially true for those of us who think the curbing is there to drive over launching our cars in the air sometimes , but often the straightest line to the next corner, ha.

Many have found, after they bought the 18x11 rims that there were quite a few used Michelin and Pirelli race tires available ( from various sources ) at low prices , so they would run an HPDE on used slicks.There are more and more 19s appearing, but they are often sizes that are too wide to fit comfortably on our cars.
Would there be a dramatic downside to going 18x10 vs 18x11? I'd like to not run a spacer if possible
 
539
687
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
SoCal
Would there be a dramatic downside to going 18x10 vs 18x11? I'd like to not run a spacer if possible
I was in a similar situation. I purchased 10" wheels first time around thinking " I'm new and slow, I wouldn't fully utilize 11" wheels anyway"....well as I got faster and my desire to continue to go faster, I ended up buying 11" wheels anyway.
My point is, why bother buying wheels twice. Get the 11" the first time and grow into them.

May I ask why you would prefer no spacer? I can't seem to think of a negative. You could get varying offsets for front and rear so you wouldn't need a spacer BUT then you will no longer be able to rotate your tires
 
18
12
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Ladson South Carolina
I was in a similar situation. I purchased 10" wheels first time around thinking " I'm new and slow, I wouldn't fully utilize 11" wheels anyway"....well as I got faster and my desire to continue to go faster, I ended up buying 11" wheels anyway.
My point is, why bother buying wheels twice. Get the 11" the first time and grow into them.

May I ask why you would prefer no spacer? I can't seem to think of a negative. You could get varying offsets for front and rear so you wouldn't need a spacer BUT then you will no longer be able to rotate your tires
I'd like to stay away from spacers because I'm not comfortable with the idea of having one to be honest. Just something that doesn't sit right with me; I've also heard spacers can fail at times which generally leads me back to the avoidance of them.

I'm not opposed to having two set of wheels either however. I have the space in the garage to hold at least 4 sets of wheels or tires or a combination of them. Since my car still is a daily as well I'd prefer two sets so I can use one for the street (preferably also flow forged for stronger wheels and less rotating mass).
 

JDee

Ancient Racer
1,797
2,001
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
5 miles from Mosport
High quality spacers with long ARP studs properly installed and torqued do not fail. There's some cheap junk around out there and that is what has caused the problems. Buy your spacers from a quality supplier, like OPMustang and get high quality ARP long studs and you won't have to worry about them. You will for sure someday wish you had bought 11's right off the start.

I went through the same thing you are doing now, and a good friend from this site talked me into going straight to 11's, it was biggest favour he could have done me. It is a time proven solution to making a Mustang handle and it really is not a big deal to do.
 
18
12
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Ladson South Carolina
High quality spacers with long ARP studs properly installed and torqued do not fail. There's some cheap junk around out there and that is what has caused the problems. Buy your spacers from a quality supplier, like OPMustang and get high quality ARP long studs and you won't have to worry about them. You will for sure someday wish you had bought 11's right off the start.

I went through the same thing you are doing now, and a good friend from this site talked me into going straight to 11's, it was biggest favour he could have done me. It is a time proven solution to making a Mustang handle and it really is not a big deal to do.
Say I went this route, does that mean I'd need spacers in the rear as well for my 14? I'd like to be able to rotate the wheels as well if I went this route since it is also currently my daily.

What wheel specs should I look for if I'm going 18x11? Offset? And I'm assuming go towards apex for wheels? What about lug nuts since I'm assuming the studs are going to be longer? Open ended lugs? Thank you for the input!
 
1,163
2,119
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
SoCal
Say I went this route, does that mean I'd need spacers in the rear as well for my 14? I'd like to be able to rotate the wheels as well if I went this route since it is also currently my daily.

What wheel specs should I look for if I'm going 18x11? Offset? And I'm assuming go towards apex for wheels? What about lug nuts since I'm assuming the studs are going to be longer? Open ended lugs? Thank you for the input!

Check out this fitment guide from APEX - very helpful and answers most of your questions on backspace, etc.


https://support.apexraceparts.com/h...5526493-S197-Mustang-Wheel-Tire-Fitment-Guide

No spacer required in the rear with 18x11 ET52 on a 2014. The tire may rub slightly on the bump stop bracket, but only at full droop. Never had a clearance issue on track.
 
18
12
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Ladson South Carolina
Check out this fitment guide from APEX - very helpful and answers most of your questions on backspace, etc.


https://support.apexraceparts.com/h...5526493-S197-Mustang-Wheel-Tire-Fitment-Guide

No spacer required in the rear with 18x11 ET52 on a 2014. The tire may rub slightly on the bump stop bracket, but only at full droop. Never had a clearance issue on track.
I'll be giving that a thorough go through after work, thank you!

If you don't mind me asking, what is your setup for brakes, tires, and wheels? Offsets, dimensions, reasons why, problems, what would you change etc?
 

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