High front Brake Disc wear rate.......

Discussion in 'Brakes, Wheels and Tires' started by Mad Hatter, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    I track my car regularly and have had a problem for a while now with cracked rotors.... At first with Stoptech slotted discs the Pagid pads, and the pads would out wear the discs. That's with 3" brake ducts and stock Boss Brembos. So I switched to DBA 2pc T3 5000 rotors and am finding the same problem, just more expensive to replace......

    Oddly enough the stock rotors had by far the longest life.... Just worn with no heat crackling... Still have them as spares.

    I generally use the rotors till my finger nails get caught on the crack....

    Is this normal?? Or are the brakes saying time to upgrade? A set of new DBA rotor rings are half the price of the complete S550 15" setup, so its looking like a sensible upgrade..... more brakes for less long term costs. Or is this just a cooling issue and need 4" brake ducts?? Or just me??
     
  2. Drlee50

    Drlee50 TMO Advanced

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    do you have the boss 302S ABS module?
    I have went through 6 sets of front carbotech pads (r12, 16, 16, 20, 20, 20) and 0 rear pads (r10s) and 4 sets of front rotors (stoptech slotted), and a pair of calipers - all in the course of 6 weekends of HPDE's. Cracked the rotors on all of them due to heat. I run 3" cooling ducts.
    Why did this happen? Because the traction control never goes totally off when its set to OFF. It still applies the front brakes in my long sweeper corners with high yaw angles etc etc. Totally cooks my brakes.
    I put in the 302S ABS module last track weekend and all was solved! I put in new R24 pads ( the 24 hour endurance pads! LOL) new rotors and fresh SRF. My pyrometer actually wasnt pegged anymore! it read fronts at 490 to 525 degrees and the rear rotors at 280 to 310 degrees. For the weekend, I went through maybe 20% of my front pads in 6 hours of track time and 50% of my rear pads! Braking was excellent, I did not have to stop any sessions early due to " no brakes!!" , no pedal to the floor oh shit moments. Brakes were super strong every time. I was braking way late and it was predictable every time. No heat cracks in my rotors at all. I will move up to a stronger rear pad when these are done. I think they will last a bit longer. I was really thinking I was going to have to change to a full race brake setup. Now, I think Im gonna be fine with these. Im gonna run another short track event soon, then I will hit road america (long track) and then I will know what the final verdict will be.
     
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  3. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    That makes sense..., I have a AED track tune that lights up the dash like a Christmas tree taking off traction control. I thought that its all off, hmm...... Before the tune the dam thing would come on during a race and then you new you where off the podium for sure. With the track Tune the rear brakes last forever though.

    But will look into it!
     
  4. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson Corner Barstool Sitter

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    Are you talking about traction control only or AdvanceTrac generally?

    I didn't think TC did anything with the front brakes, only the rear brakes and some throttle cutting.


    Norm
     
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  5. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

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    The stock rotors are very good and reasonably priced.
     
  6. Drlee50

    Drlee50 TMO Advanced

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    Advancetrack

    Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
     
  7. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

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    That typically wears out the rear brakes not the front.
     
  8. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Hmmm,,... Can buy some 3 sets of stock rotors for the price of a set of DBA rings.....
     
  9. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

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    You're pretty sharp with the math. :)
     
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  10. Drlee50

    Drlee50 TMO Advanced

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    Well something in the system is activating the fronts. I thought it was advancetrack since sometimes the advance track would reset to full power and really intrude cooking the fronts even faster. And since I went through literally 6 sets of front pad vs zero in the rear ....it seemed the fronts were being activated. Now with the 302S abs module....its acting much better. I read on here that the brake bias is much better etc. Seems to be true based on my temps and pad wear. I thought advsnce track was the traction control. Are there 3 separate systems?
    1- advance track
    2- traction control
    3- abs

    Maybe my intrusion was ABS? Does that activate the fronts ?
    Either way, the 302S module fixed it .
    He's cooking fronts so I'd say that abs module outta do the trick !


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  11. DocB

    DocB TMO Intermediate

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    Additionally, you may want to think about upsizing to 4" brakeducts.
     
  12. Drlee50

    Drlee50 TMO Advanced

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    If you are running these little inlets, is there any point in going to 4"? [​IMG]

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  13. 2012-Boss

    2012-Boss TMO Addict

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    Cracked rotors are normal on a track car. How fast do you develop cracks that extend to the rotors edge or you can easily catch with a finger nail?
     
  14. Coz

    Coz TMO Intermediate

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  15. Drlee50

    Drlee50 TMO Advanced

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    I have the vorshlag 3" on my car . they make a 4" too. I didn't see the point of 4" plates with a 3" inlet at the bumper. Any benefit to the 4" backing plate with 3" bumper opening?

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  16. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson Corner Barstool Sitter

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    AdvanceTrac and traction control are piggybacked on top of ABS. Earlier S197 Mustangs had TC but not A-T.

    I suppose it's possible that you're getting into the ABS under braking and the ABS isn't restoring line pressure to the rear brakes. That would tend to make you overwork the front brakes.

    I also think it's possible for A-T to work the front brakes if it's been programmed to do so in order to prevent a spin. A mild tail-out cornering attitude might cause just one front brake (probably the outside) to be applied such that an understeering yaw moment would be generated (while also trying to slow the car and reduce the cornering forces on the rear tires). I've also heard from within the repair industry that strange behaviors can frequently be traced to a steering wheel position sensor that needs to be reset.


    Norm
     
  17. Coz

    Coz TMO Intermediate

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    I doubt there would be any benefit but I am not sure.
     
  18. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson Corner Barstool Sitter

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    Not as long as the ducting is only 3". There's probably a little benefit with 4" ducting but if you're going to bother doing that you might as well open up the inlet area to match. Might not have to keep it round . . .


    Norm
     
  19. Eritas

    Eritas TMO Intermediate

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    ABS generates a TON of heat and wear. Super aggressive pads that engage ABS easily will wear out pads, rotors, and increase the tendency to fade the pads and fluid. You want a pad with good feel and modulation to keep the tire right at the point of lockup/ABS without overworking the ABS pump.

    There are a ton of BBK setups and super aggressive pads out there that will get into ABS with barely any brake pressure. These are horrible for being smooth with the brakes, making them last, and outright braking performance, if you're riding the ABS hard the entire time in a brake zone.

    Also, don't put anything aggressive on the rear. S197s & 550s don't need much more than a street pad in the rear. And ditch the cross drilled and slotted rotors. Just use blanks.
     
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  20. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    With the TC off from the AED track tune, the rear brake wear is very light.... Used to use stock pads and now have Gloc R12's on the rear but not much of a difference at the back anyways. Its still only the stock Boss Brembos and the car is braking well with out a lot of ABS kicking in. Guess it comes to a point when going to a bigger brake is a cost effective way ahead!!.... Going thru discs like crazy and thats not from wear, just temp cracks, lots of meat left on the rotor. Our races are only 20min long, but several session per event and once a month.

    (trying to convince myself that going to the S550 15" brakes is the way to go o_O)
     

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