How scored is too scored (Cylinder head fun time)

[302 Hi Pro]

I haven't torn down the block yet, but there are the following issues that make me think I'm not getting good ring seal:

1: smoke on decel
2: oil always smells of fuel
3: the breather setup would always smoke under idle or when I lift (could see it leave the vents on the tiger hood at slow speeds or at a stop). So much so that I put the factory PCV system back in.

I'll know soon on the tear down. Still going to see what's on the table with MMR before I make any decisions, though I should have those head castings in hands soon.

Number 3 indicates piston ring "blow-by" where compression stroke blows by the rings into the crankcase. I take it the heads are not removed and you have yet to see the condition of the cylinder walls?

Also, crack open your oil filter and look at the pleats for the amount of debris, and check with your magnet for iron particles v. aluminum particles. Then inspect the oil pick up screen for particles. If there was oil starvation, then rod end bearings are quick to go.

You will have to go thru the entire oiling system to ensure you don't re-contaminate your new rebuild. You should also be discussing the need for a complete tear down and inspection with your engine shop and see what they say.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Dave
302 HP

 

[captdistraction]

just so everyone's up to speed:

The motor was built, spun a rod bearing during break-in (thus the scoring), and then rebuilt. I didn't know about the scoring until recently when I just decided to look. So the bummer is that it went back together like that. However the builder has agreed to take everything back and repair it, although I have those castings coming in. I haven't decided if they're destined for Drew's block or if I can be good to go with whatever comes out of the rebuild of my stuff.

On the spark plug tubes, Steve, Mark at MMR has them for $100 for all 8. Call Mark at 8053834130 if you want to grab a set. He implied its something they make in house, but given they do a lot of head work over there makes sense.

 

[steveespo]

Thanks, I will give Mark a call. Good luck with the rebuild.
Steve

 

[ford20]

just so everyone's up to speed:

The motor was built, spun a rod bearing during break-in (thus the scoring), and then rebuilt. I didn't know about the scoring until recently when I just decided to look. So the bummer is that it went back together like that. However the builder has agreed to take everything back and repair it, although I have those castings coming in. I haven't decided if they're destined for Drew's block or if I can be good to go with whatever comes out of the rebuild of my stuff.

On the spark plug tubes, Steve, Mark at MMR has them for $100 for all 8. Call Mark at 8053834130 if you want to grab a set. He implied its something they make in house, but given they do a lot of head work over there makes sense.

I am going to guess bearing material wasn't fully cleaned out when your motor was built and now this is what happened. My heads look the same exact way when I took them apart.

yeah I will be. The castings are on ebay. I am really thinking about just securing them. I hope I can con MMR into helping out, but I won't hold my breath.

I may or may not be resleeving Drew's old shortblock. Between the ring seal issues on mine (blow-by, heavy oil consumption) and the 11.5:1 being a bit tough to tune for fuel availability, going to a 11:1 setup might make a lot of sense in the long run.

I like to learn everything the hard way. Hopefully have this all figured out soon.

Do you have a link to the castings?

 

[captdistraction]

This was the link, but it looks like they've sold out (maybe reach out to them)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291369280610?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

My set arrives tomorrow, will post some pictures of them.

 

[steveespo]

That is where I got mine for $999. Delivery scheduled for Monday. You can outfit them to be complete with valves springs and keepers just like the FRRP sets for another $800. That is a fair savings for a little bench labor.
Steve

 

[captdistraction]

For mine, what do you guys recommend to clean my existing valves? So far I'm in for new springs and seals, but is there anything else I should consider (I'd think these wouldn't need a valve job or anything like that done)

 

[captdistraction]

They showed up today. Look great with a few scratches (nothing that impedes use). They're as fresh a set of heads as anyone will ever see.

Porn inbound shortly.

 

[superhero]

For mine, what do you guys recommend to clean my existing valves? So far I'm in for new springs and seals, but is there anything else I should consider (I'd think these wouldn't need a valve job or anything like that done)

Parts cleaner and then lap the valves to the new head to ensure all is well.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

For mine, what do you guys recommend to clean my existing valves? So far I'm in for new springs and seals, but is there anything else I should consider (I'd think these wouldn't need a valve job or anything like that done)

WD40

 

[captdistraction]

Pictures of the heads are here: (I couldn't find the image links to embed here)
http://imgur.com/a/8zHj9#9RB3Yy4

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

So fresh and so clean, clean

 

[captdistraction]

As AZB and I discovered, the heads will require some cleanup. They are very very fresh from machining, meaning that the passages all have bits of metal shavings in them.

 

[blacksheep-1]

I don't see why they can't be align bored, I don't get the "no guarantee of alignment thingie", try checking with the engien shop at Phoenix, that guy is very talented and they have all of the cool stuff to do this sort of thing.

 

[steveespo]

As AZB and I discovered, the heads will require some cleanup. They are very very fresh from machining, meaning that the passages all have bits of metal shavings in them.

Compressed air on one end and shop vac on the other. Also a flush out with brake cleaner and compressed air will clean them out.
My set is very clean but I will do them before assembly too.
Steve

 

[blacksheep-1]

Let me make a point about cleanliness. I recently built a pushrod 302, started it..ran fine, good oil pressure so I took it for a small drive. It lost oil pressure so I shut it down. Pulled it apart, some crap had gone through the oil pump??!! I replaced the oil pump, filters and etc. Started it up..same thing happened.( My rule of thumb is 2 oil pressure losses, the bottom end comes apart) Sure enough, the crank was scored, so replaced everything, but I took the engine all the way back down to bare block, pressure washed, tanked, cleaned and use dthe hot soapy water and Tide on it before putting it back together..again.
What I discovered is that the oil pan was bead blasted and then powder coated with all the best intentions by the machine shop but...the seam where the after market section of the pan was welded to the stock upper ( no you couldn't see it) contained bits of the bead blast material. When the engine got hot and oil was flowing these beads would work their way into the oil pump and cause the pressure loss. You couldn't see where they were hiding but I was able to take a knife and work my way around the seam and sure enough these beads started falling out..what a PITA.
No more bead blasting oil pans......

 

[steveespo]

Good points Rob. That is why it is a good idea to check all parts for casting flash, casting sand, machined flakes etc. Even on used parts and especially on new parts. Check those hidden recesses as you found out.
Steve

 

[captdistraction]

So just a note, I talked with MMR today and they are hesitant about those heads. They knew which shop I had bought them from immediately and mentioned they were discarded ford blems, some with porosity, failed leak tests, casting defects and other issues.

Visually I've only found a couple minor fixable defects (just a rough edge here or there and some tooling marks on a bearing surface on the left head). I may take them somewhere to be inspected by someone more skilled than I though MMR mentioned they would clean them up and run them as long as I understood the risks involved.

 

[captdistraction]

Brent at CBM who sells these, will sell a complete hardware kit for $100 (plugs, dowels, thread in plugs and spark plug tubes). I just ordered a set to send to MMR.

-Brent
Custom Built Motors
909.291.7550 phone
909.291.7554 fax
ext. 2003
custombuiltmotors.com
brent "at" custombuiltmotors.com