How To Find a Used 550 w/PP2

Discussion in 'GT350 and S550 Technical Forum' started by lakeside, May 1, 2019.

  1. lakeside

    lakeside TMO Intermediate

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    Started to look for a used 2018 with PP2, is their any way to spot them by wheels or VIN numbers when looking on sites like Autotrader or Cars.com. I knew on my 2015 that the gauges where the center A/C duct was made it easy to find PP cars. Looking for an easy identifier
     
  2. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    You are looking for around 1500 vehicles , and of course at only a year old , not many will be available so soon? Why are you not considering looking for a 2019?
     
  3. ArizonaBOSS

    ArizonaBOSS Because racecar. Moderator

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    The wheels are unique and a dead giveaway, not to mention the additional lower splitter in front.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. lakeside

    lakeside TMO Intermediate

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    I’m looking for a 2018 because they’re a lot less expensive, someone has already taken that first year hit. Had a tough time finding a 2015 PP also, but between Charlotte where I live and Atlanta, there a huge market for performance cars.
     
  5. lakeside

    lakeside TMO Intermediate

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    Thanks for the wheels tip
     
  6. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    Brought it up as the rebates on Mustangs don't carry over to GT 350s , but they have on the Perf. Pack Stangs, so a 19 may not be priced that bad if you find one that has not been loaded up?
     
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  7. lakeside

    lakeside TMO Intermediate

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    Bill,
    You’re absolutely correct about prices on the new 19’s. It’s just so hard to stop hitting that damn add button for options
     
  8. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    The bigger problem is they are building so few again , that most Dealers may order , but they may never see them. I know one of our Stores thought they would be getting a couple and it looks like they are down to only one?
     
  9. 302BOB

    302BOB TMO Addict

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    When is Ford going to realize they need an inventory to support a high performance market...it's there!!!
     
  10. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    I honestly think they have things down pretty well , as they keep demand up and it helps with resale, but they also recognize that we are their niche buyers. I am constantly shocked at how few Mustang buyers are aware of this package, and even more surprised about how many buyers are focused on an automatic set-up? " Saving the Manuals," is often viewed as a fun topic for those of us that are serious Motorheads, but the reality is many, many folks can not drive a vehicle with a 5 or 6 speed? Though the TMO faithful are mostly into the choreographed dance of the Apexes, the bulk of the automotive speed fans are into drag racing. Not my cup of tea, but I am aware enough to admit this is a bigger piece of the enthusiast pie. A great situation for us is that a group of Blue Oval Engineersare heavy into the road course persona of years past , and it is partly due to this that we have a very nice segment of machines built for the twists and turns of circuit racing. The GT 500 will bear this out, and show the faithful that Ford Performance is beholding to the small niche we all embody! So , since I am rambling as usual, the numbers are not bad considering the real market penetration, and when combined with the GT 350 and GT 350R numbers, we have a pretty strong presence for a relatively limited group of buyers?

    Now , Bob , remember, you have one of those machines they limited total production on ( 2 years total), so the benefit of low volume will show up even more in the coming years , imho. Love you , man, keep posting away !!
     
  11. lakeside

    lakeside TMO Intermediate

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    There's a Ford Store in FL that has 4 of them, 2 of them didn't have the big splitter showing in the picture and a guy who works there told me that the sales guys are tearing them up so they leave them off til the customer takes delivery. I take it that you're at a Ford store Bill?
     
  12. saidtheblueknight

    saidtheblueknight TMO Beginner

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    Not to throw a wrench in your plans, but what is it about the PP2 specifically that you want that you otherwise can't achieve the same out of a PP1?

    The PP2 has wheels/tires, a more aggressive magride tune and the splitter. All easy upgrades to a PP1 and for less.

    Unless you want the PP2 for status and/or resale value.
     
  13. lakeside

    lakeside TMO Intermediate

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    Well, I’m open, please tell me exactly how you would accomplish that.
     
  14. 2012-Boss

    2012-Boss TMO Addict

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    If this is an HPDE car, find a stripped down PP1. The only thing you are after are the brakes and Torsen. Get a decent set of aftermarket coil overs, some sticky tires, a front splitter, and possibly the GT350R knock off rear wing.

    Another option might be a complete Ford Performance suspension kit with struts, springs, and sway bars.

    But, the ride won’t be as civilized for everyday use.

    Take some of the money you saved and get a differential cooler, engine oil cooler, and front brake ducts.

    The PP2 is a good package. It’s just too bad you have to add options to the car just to be able to order the package.
     
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  15. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    No offense, but this makes absolutely no sense to me , because if you figure a fairly basic Mustang GT Perf. Package ( PP1 equivalent) , and then add the Magneride, you are pushing 43K. With the PP2 and adding Recaros ( not available on the GT Perf. Pack ) you end up at just a tiny bit over 45K , and the Recaros are a 1600 option. You also have some wider rims and killer rubber to start with , if you want to track it without buying extra stuff right away. There are other small items that come with the PP2 , like front splitter ,etc. , so why run around adding all the other stuff listed? There is virtually no way that is going to fiscally work out ahead, especially when one will spend in the neighborhood of $3000 for quality rims and tires of equal width. This is part of the reason the PP2 is in high demand and why Ford limits the machine - it is a flat as good buy. Granted most end up being a bit higher than this with some other options , but look at the cars stripped to compare?
     
  16. JDee

    JDee Ancient Racer

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    Well, two things from the above posts come to mind.

    First Bill, I have PP1 and it came with Recaros, in fact the only 2 options I got on it were Recaros and PP1. My intent was a track toy that could live on the street. If you can't get Recaros now that must be something new or did I misunderstand your post?

    As for the ride with the Ford Racing track suspension, it is surprisingly decent on the street, hardly any different than the PP1 setup. I am told it's due to the progressive nature of the springs, which at their max are close to the GT350R rates but at their min are softer. I find it very good both for getting to and around the track.

    I agree with the idea that PP2 is really not such a great deal, especially since you have to take a lot of other not useful for the track stuff. It seems a lot of track focused people eventually dump magnaride for coilovers anyway so why pay the big bucks for that?

    Again, it all depends on what the OP wants, show or go?
     
  17. Champale

    Champale TMO Race

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    It seems like if someone wants to build the fastest, cheapest Mustang GT, they would do what Vorshlag has done and buy the cheapest no-frills GT they could find and then upgrade everything like wheels, brakes, coolers, and seat. Guys did similar with basic GTs in lieu of buying the Boss 302s a few years back and yes, you can build one heck of a car that way.

    But . . . the PP2 is just flat-out cool as hell to me. I love the subtle looks and the fact that Ford makes this sort of harder edged car for the real enthusiast.
     
  18. lakeside

    lakeside TMO Intermediate

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    Well, it looks like I’m in an impossible position here. If I get a PP2, I’m just trying to show off and if I go the PP1 route, I’m out spending thousands of dollars and doing a shit ton of work and a few track events developing “MY” setup.
    I’ve built race cars for the last 40 years and the last play car I did is the one in my avatar. After adding about 30k in goodies to it and who knows how many freaking hours putting all this stuff together, I have a car I can’t unload for 18k. So when I see Ford has made a freakin cool car with more trick shit that I’ll never be able to duplicate in my lifetime, I’m smart enough to realize that just maybe somebody does know a bit more than me. I doubt the ride will be to much more uncivilized than my current car that I drive to the track and in a few years if something else come along it will have the resale clout of the PP2 package not some almost as good car put together by an old race car builder. Just as you guys have shown, the other guy doesn’t know how to really get it right.
    I know most of the people post here are great guys only trying to help, but don’t always assume that we don’t know what we’re doing.
    So, does anybody know anybody selling a PP2 or know of a white one sitting at a dealership?
     
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  19. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    JDee --- you might find a used one , true, and that was what the OP asked initially, but no Recaros in a new one as the PP1 does not actually exist, it is now a GT Performance Package. For better tires, wider rims, Magneride standard, larger sway bar, some suspension and tuning adjustments , Recaros available, I can't imagine why someone would not want a GT 350 light ( PP2). To just get a GT Performance Package and then buy rims , tires, do the suspension , buy racing seats, it does not come out money wise in my book? But that is my thought process and everyone has their own concept. The nice thing is for the occasional track individual , everything is there , fully warranted and the factory has not kicked the PP2 out of the rebate listing , so the pricing is even lower prior to negotiation.

    Just my opinion and there were better options when you got yours, as I ordered PP1s with Recaros back then, and the car was under 40K.
     
  20. 2012-Boss

    2012-Boss TMO Addict

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    Bill,

    My COA is strictly a track focused car. But, re-looking current pricing, I have to admit it would be hard. The effort would be highly dependent on the buyers ability to negotiate price and work on the car themselves.

    At least in my area, dealers will get to invoice or below on PP1 cars before applying rebates. Not so much with the PP2.

    I meant a stripped down 300A PP1. No Recaros, no Magneride, no active exhaust, nothing except the brakes and the torsen. Sticker price is $38,945.

    A 301A PP2 with no other options is $43,450.

    Delta is $4,505. But, I suspect you could wrangle a additional $1,000 or so off of a PP1 compared to a PP2.

    I wouldn't go as far as Vorschlag and skip the brakes and the torsen. They quickly found out this was not the best option and have since made numerous brake upgrades and then replaced the traction lock with a Auburn diff.

    As far as wheels and tire, most of the people I know who are regularly tracking a PP2 bought a set of 18 x 11 wheels to expand their tire choices with slicks / takeoffs. I am making an assumption that most would wide up with a set of dedicated track wheels.

    Anyway, here's a list:

    $1250 M-FR3A-M8A Ford Handling Track Package from American Muscle.
    $247 Maximum Motorsports Camber Plates from AM
    $476 Anderson Fiberglass GT350R Rear spoiler, unpainted, from Cortex
    $380 APR front splitter (there are other options)
    $1500 Apex 18 x 11 wheels
    $600 Pirelli DH takeoffs 305/660/18 from John Berget

    Total: $4,453, but you have to be able to do all the work.

    If you go used, I still suspect you can find a better deal on a PP1 vs PP2.

    Needed to successfully track either a PP1 or PP2:
    $999 FT 570 Full Tilt Boogie Differential Cooler
    $265 FT 9215 Full Tilt Boogie Brake Cooling Kit

    I also think a harness, roll bar or harness bar, and a race seat are a given for either car to be tracked safely. Truthfully, if you are going to track the cars, I think the wheels and tires belong on both vehicles. You get better access to sticky rubber and you drop a lot of rotating weight.

    I do think the above with sticker rubber, lighter wheels, more camber, and better rear aero is probably faster around a track than a stock PP2.

    Again, this is highly dependent on how good a deal you can strike on a bare bones PP1. This also is not a route I would suggest to most people. Just the die hard track rat. MSRP to MSRP, I think you might be able to build a faster car, but is it worth the extra effort?

    As a well rounded vehicle, I do think the PP2 is a great package and a good value. If you want to dual purpose the car with only an occasional HPDE, then bite the bullet and find a PP2.

    Personally, I would go the base PP1 route and immediately strip the entire factory suspension and go with good dual adjustable coilovers, camber plates, bearings in all the suspension links, solid rear diff cradle bushings, aftermarket exhaust to drop weight, light wheels, stickier rubber, etcetera. But, I want a no compromise track car.

    I would go one further. I would not necessarily buy a 2018 or 2019 PP1. The transmission gearing sucks. You are never in the right gear at corner exit. Because of this, the car is really no faster out of the corner than the 2017 which has less power.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019

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