HPDE prep

[racered302]

Yea, that was fun!

 

[steveespo]

The advice to be smooth, check the ego and just learn has to be taken in context. When you are on track you are moving fast even when driving at 5/10ths. The speeds on track are like nothing you can really do on the public roads. I didn't mean to make it sound like you should have no fun, just try and work your way up speed at your own pace. I too got back into performance driving at age 44, in the 80s I drove a 10 second 5.0 Mustang and a TBird Supercoupe that I did a few track days with. We are so lucky today with so many track day clubs and tracks that allow them. In the 80s it was all licensed racing, even amateur SCCA or you had the Porsche Club of America when you had to have a Porsche and who could afford them. Pocono had the only easy to get on track days here in the Northeast and I ran there for $225 a few imes from 86-89. Today's costs are much lower relatively speaking.

Anyway please enjoy it and take some of our tidbits to maximize the fun and the learning.
Steve

 

[dabossinnne]

Steve, Pete, and all,

For me personally, your words and advice are taken to heart. I have absolutely no preconceptions going into my first HPDE day on being fast. I have reached the age where I want to learn. Learn the etiquette of a hot track, learn the dynamics of what the car is doing and to learn what those dynamics are telling me. To learn greater car control. To learn, period. This is something I have wanted to try for years now. Going in open minded, with the ego checked at the door will benefit myself tremendously and allow me to listen...and learn.

i have just finished reading "Winning" by Matt Stone. This great book chronicles Paul Newman's racing career, and Paul approached his racing the same way I hope to emulate. He went into racing as a newbie at the age of 47. Some say that is too old to start, but he proved everyone wrong. Why you say...because Paul went into racing with the desire to learn and to listen from others whose ability was greater than his. With much practice he became a world class driver. I can only hope that I have the patience and dedication to do the same. I have no grand illusion of becoming a world class driver, but to improve my skills and mindset to where at anytime I am comfortable in the Hot Rod will be a success in my eyes.

Thank you again. And I apologize in advance to Bad Boss, I do not mean to hi-jack your thread.

That's the right attitude Mardis. You'll do fine.

 

[PJWANNABE]

I agree with Steve. A stock Boss is plenty of car for a first-time and novice HPDE. Even my pretty much stock '12 Brembo GT does just fine. Just get a multi-point inspection, get the oil changed, and emply the car at the track. Bring a helment, a tire presure gauge, and a torque wrench to check the lug nuts between sessions. I find that 38 PSI works well for tire wear, and the lug nuts should be at 100 ft-lbs. Also bring a folding chair and plenty of water - staying hydrated is very important. I like to eat beef jerky and pretzels during the day to keep my stomach settled, but some people can eat a greasy burger and then go out on track.

When you start doing HPDEs often and faster, then worry about high temp brake fluid, different pads, and tires (but if you want to obsess and have the money to spend, that is up to you). For now just drive 7/10's, concentrate on being smooth and consistent rather than speed and lap times, and listen to your instructor; you will have more fun and will bring the car home in one piece.

That is my two cents.

 

[PeteInCT]

Even for a first timer he should not run with anything but a DOT-4 fluid. Even at moderate speeds the Boss, especially without brake cooling ducts, will boil the stock DOT-3 fluid very easily.

-Pete

 

[PeteInCT]

I just deleted a post by someone who stated that you won't boil your fluids if you run with dot 3. I have enough experience and I've seen multiple instances a brake fade on bosses that are running dot 3. Ford recommends dot 4 for the track. There is a reason for this. It is possible that anyone driver will not drive fast enough to boil dot 3 fluid. However, on this website it makes no sense for advice to be given better soon optimal conditions when safety is involved.

 

[PJWANNABE]

Good points, Pete. No one should ever say that you can't boil DOT3 brake fluid. If anyone has plans to drive their car really hard, they should take the extra saftey precaution of changing the fluid to DOT4. I actually saw a novice guy catch his 2007 Shelby GT front pads on fire at Carolina Motorsports Park a few years ago.

I purposely hold back a little since this is my only car, and because I also don't have the disposable income for consumables to freely indulge myself in this sport. I have never experienced brake fluid boil or brake fade myself with this car or my 2008 Bullitt (although I could tell the Bullitt's brakes were being pushed nearer to the limits), and I have been running with the DOT3 fluid and no cooling ducts. I would never tell anyone not to upgrade anything though snce it all depends on the track, ambient temperature that day, and how you are going to drive. At the speeds I see some people drive their Bosses on this site I think they should also have a full roll cage, a 5-point harness, and be wearing a HANS device with full Nomex gear, but they don't.

 

[Roadhouse]

Even for a first timer he should not run with anything but a DOT-4 fluid. Even at moderate speeds the Boss, especially without brake cooling ducts, will boil the stock DOT-3 fluid very easily.

-Pete

This. I would say switching to DOT4 fluid is the only "necessary" upgrade to a stock car that should be made before tracking for the first time.

 

[racered302]

You should read the supplement that came with your manual and and make those changes pertaining brakes as a minimum . They added that for a reason. It would be a scary thing hitting the brakes and their not there. Once less thing you have worry about. Have fun! It's worth it.

I just noticed you have a brembo GT. I guess your manual doesn't have a supplement. Our say DOT4, remove rear brake shields to help with cooling, brake cooling ducts for the front, but they only fits the C/S and Boss.

 

[further]

I just deleted a post by someone who stated that you won't boil your fluids if you run with dot 3. I have enough experience and I've seen multiple instances a brake fade on bosses that are running dot 3. Ford recommends dot 4 for the track. There is a reason for this. It is possible that anyone driver will not drive fast enough to boil dot 3 fluid. However, on this website it makes no sense for advice to be given better soon optimal conditions when safety is involved.

Fair enough, I just haven't seen first timers run their car hard, while they're still learning the lines and what an apex is. I ran my first two events on DOT 3. Erring on the side of caution is probably wise. Forgive me.

 

[DGRacing]

Fair enough, I just haven't seen first timers run their car hard, while they're still learning the lines and what an apex is. I ran my first two events on DOT 3. Erring on the side of caution is probably wise. Forgive me.

Not your fault. Sometimes you will find "elitism" on this site and alternate opinions are sometimes not tolerated...

 

[PeteInCT]

Not your fault. Sometimes you will find "elitism" on this site and elitism elitalternate opinions are sometimes not tolerated...

it would probably be best for you, practically has no real world experience, 315 for giving out any technical advice. If you believe this is elitism then you truly do not understand the sport what the purpose of this website. This is about safety and nothing more.

 

[isrboss]

I first hand boiled dot 3 fluid on my first ever track day at Roebling, in an SRT4 no doubt. It was me thinking I could cheap out for my first track day. Lucky Roebling has great run off area, others may not be so lucky. The biggest factor here is the instructor teaching, mine was driving me pretty deep after the first session. I was fanning the brakes mid straight, and my instructor asked why, I was like man I am doing all I can to keep us on track with this car(that car could dig pavement up in a corner it under steered so bad). I have also been off track in a first session due to not bedding the pads properly, drove too deep and nothing home.

Brakes are the MOST important thing to prep for a track day, and relatively inexpensive. Most of us know how the car goes forward, but not how it feels while threshold braking. Don't go to a drag strip with a bad clutch/clutch fluid and expect positive out come.

 

[PJWANNABE]

You guys all make a good case for changing to DOT4 before going out on track.

Probably another thing to mention regarding your experience is learning to manage your instructor. They are all different and some will take a more even-handed approach while others will push you hard early on to go really fast and brake hard. Just do what you are comfortable with and if you feel like they are pushing you too much before you are ready, or don't want to beat on your car too badly, don't be afraid to speak up. If they won't listen, ask for a different instructor. You are in control.

 

[PJWANNABE]

You should read the supplement that came with your manual and and make those changes pertaining brakes as a minimum . They added that for a reason. It would be a scary thing hitting the brakes and their not there. Once less thing you have worry about. Have fun! It's worth it.

I just noticed you have a brembo GT. I guess your manual doesn't have a supplement. Our say DOT4, remove rear brake shields to help with cooling, brake cooling ducts for the front, but they only fits the C/S and Boss.

Yes, I have a Brembo GT. Even though it has the same calipers and pads as the Boss, and is more track-ready than the standard GT, it did not come with a supplement. The Brembo GT is not marketed as a track-ready car like the Boss. I wonder if the 2013 Track Pack has a supplement.

Anyway, I did several HPDE before learning about high temp brake fluids. Maybe if I had joined a forum like this first I would have done it from the start. At least I am getting the fluid changed now, so I'm making progress.

 

[Roadhouse]

At my home track, Hallett, they always talk about brake fluid during our drivers meeting before heading out on track. The instructors will take a poll of who isn't using high temp fluid and specifically discuss with them the symptoms and warning signs of of brake failure due to boiled fluid and how to react when the pedal goes to the floor. They also suggest they make the switch before their next track day. There is even a helpful hints page on the track website that strongly urges all HPDE drivers to upgrade to high temp fluid.

 

[LostPony]

I would caution that just because you change your fluid to DOT4, it does not guarantee you won't have brake issues. I am having fade issues with Motul 600 and Carbotech 12f/8r pads on street tires. It is rare, but it does occur. If your pedal begins to feel "soft" or pedal travel increases, it may be worth backing off a lap or 2, or even pitting in and driving around the paddock area to cool your brakes.

If you do experience fade from fluid overheating, it will not cure itself, and will only happen sooner on successive runs, as each time it happens, the boiling point is lower. Some of the others here may have more to say on how often to change the fluid depending on how many HPDEs you do each year, but I would suggest to at least check the fluid level and color after each HPDE.

 

[Roadhouse]

I would caution that just because you change your fluid to DOT4, it does not guarantee you won't have brake issues. I am having fade issues with Motul 600 and Carbotech 12f/8r pads on street tires. It is rare, but it does occur. If your pedal begins to feel "soft" or pedal travel increases, it may be worth backing off a lap or 2, or even pitting in and driving around the paddock area to cool your brakes.

If you do experience fade from fluid overheating, it will not cure itself, and will only happen sooner on successive runs, as each time it happens, the boiling point is lower. Some of the others here may have more to say on how often to change the fluid depending on how many HPDEs you do each year, but I would suggest to at least check the fluid level and color after each HPDE.

Very true. Brake issues can happen to anyone. Good info

 

[racered302]

I talk to a guy after our last session, he did the pads and other prep with the exception of the dot4 and he said he had an issue slowing his car down and didn't think he was going to make the turn after the long straight , but he made it, I think he pinch a hole in his underware, . He said that is going to be the first thing he does when he gets home.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Here's the bottom line on the brake fluid discussion. From Page 36 of the Boss 302 Supplement:

TRACK PREPARATION
The Boss 302 and Boss 302 Laguna Seca edition have been rigorously
proven out on race tracks. Below are recommendations for optimizing
your Boss 302 for a track day event.
• Change brake fluid to Super DOT 4 to improve track performance of
braking system (WSS-M6C65-A2), Ford part number (YS4Z-19542-AA).

None of the moderators on this forum are going to recommend anything less than that or what they consider safe. Is this "elitism"? Call it whatever you want but I call it smart. Just like me there are many members that had/have never tracked a car before let alone a heavy high powered car like the Boss 302. It's in your best interest, and everyone else on the track with you, to have your car prepared so it is safe on track. That means using high temp DOT 4 brake fluid. If you're not using DOT 4 fluid now I highly suggest you install some before your next track day regardless of your experience.

We're all here to learn as much as we can about our cars and have fun. We've been running a tight ship from the beginning and get many compliments from members about how useful the forum is and how mature everyone behaves. It's been rare that we ever have to edit or delete a post and we appreciate everyone's efforts in keeping it that way. The last thing the world needs is another "The Mustang Source".