S550 In a conundrum - would appreciate a discussion

[slowdown]

I'm sure this is a much discussed topic but I purchased a used 2015 S550 that had been modified (some good work and parts and some not-so-good work and parts) and I've spent a considerable amount of time and money (not the issue) getting the car sorted out for the track and have 180 minutes of track time on the car as of now.

#1 the car is way more than I need and I can't remotely push the limits of it at my skill level (which will improve but I'm 53 so realistically how much???)
#2 the car isn't really a "safe" car to be on the track IMO as it sits (stock seats and 3 point belts) and I've ordered an OMP halo seat and custom 6 point bolt in bar from ABF Fabrications in Texas as well as 6 point harness with backing plates and a HANS.
#3 the car still needs a decent amount of money to be a "reliable" car at the track - primarily suspension as she sits on BC Racing Coilovers which are basically tuner coilovers for Honda, Subaru, etc... (Original owner put these on) they work ok for me now at my skill level but they are going to be destroyed before too long with track time. Needs bearing and axles (which I know I can expect to replace regularly anyway).

An old friend saw a post of my fast lap on Facebook and called me up and we were on the phone for about 2 hours yesterday. He is a National Level NASA instructor and a National Champion Driver from back in the day. Here's basically what he said "I think you should stop where you are at and sell the Mustang (even though it's a great car and you can have a lot of fun) and just buy a used race car for the track. The race car will be safer, way easier to work on, have better suspension components, and be significantly stiffer with a welded cage. Otherwise, you are going to constantly be throwing money at a car that's no longer really a viable street car nor is it a race car and it's just going to be a tweener that's constantly a problem if you are doing regular track days".

I do love the car and I don't see myself at my age wheel to wheel racing (that ship has sailed). Maybe I'll do some Hillclimbs and Time Attacks in a street legal class for fun

I'd appreciate any of y'alls experiences going down this road. I really do feel I can be safe in the GT with the 6 point bar, seat, harness, and HANS for what I am going to be doing (yes I would feel much safer in a full welded cage and I've heard the stories of bolts shearing in high speed impacts on bolted bars). But I do 100% get his point.

I guess what I'm saying is 5 to 6 track days and a handful of time trail races a year going to be that difficult to keep up with in this car or is he 100% on point and is it the "more" fiscally responsible idea that will enable the most enjoyment.

Thanks

 

[Mad Hatter]

Bought my Boss as a 50th birthday present. Closest I had ever got to a track was with gokart rentals. After a lot of work on the driver and the car, I was winning time-trail championships by 53 and graduated to wheel to wheel racing by 56. So if you remember your home address and kids names. Don't worry about age!! If you need a walker, try to get into shape!!

Paul Newman was my inspiration. He started at fifty and look were he got to.

100% agreed on the safety equipment. roll bar, firesuit, harness, Hans boots gloves, fire system etc are all part of the sport.

I try to get on the track at least once a month or suffer serious withdrawal symptoms. am older at 58, but a whole lot faster now then 8 years ago
IF YOU LIKE IT! GO FOR IT.

Just a note. my car is still "tecnically" street legal, So I drive to the track and back.

 

[slowdown]

Good to know. I'm still very fit. Surf, Downhill Mountain Bike, Weight Train, etc... so that's good to know. My friend did say "You'll be racing before you know it"

And the reason I went with an S550 is because of everything people told me and I researched about the platform being very versatile and reliable. Sounds like I have one vote for "keep it" and enjoy it.

 

[Mad Hatter]

S550 is a great platform, its a lot easier to drive then the stick axle cars.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Well from an "older" guy than you, your friend gave you some sound advice from the safety angle, a used race car would be safer, and for sure I've seen a lot of wannabe Mario Andrettis wad up their HPDE car out of stupidity, and driving over their skill level. The problem with a lot of race cars is that they are raced out, and the pedigree is not always certain. If you stay reasonable in your expectations, then you will be fine with what you have... minus the ricer shocks. A middle of the road might be to have a daily driver, and a track car, Check out project Superbeater, it's a bit along your lines, but is an S197. The S550s are coming down in price now so maybe you can apply some of the ideas in Superbeater. Pay close attention to the entry post, it gives the reason behind the venture.

 

[TMSBOSS]

I bought my Boss the week of my 50th birthday. I take the sport slow and remember who I have to beat. That’s me, my new lap times need to be faster than my last. Will I run W2W, doubtful. Do I have a great time running my cars, you bet.
Make your car safe, you have a great start on that. Make it dependable, cooling, brakes clutch etc.. Get some instruction and have fun.
YMMV

 

[slowdown]

That's a great thread. I need to spend more time on this forum. Yes the suspension is a priority but I'm waiting to be able to do it right so need to save some funds for that purchase - hopefully this fall. So far at my skill level they keep me planted well enough.

Actually reminds me of my next project - I have to pull the front bumper to install a tow hook and I've been wanting to put some wire mesh in front of the brake cooling inlet ducts and also in front of the Velossa Air Duct to clean up the air.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I guess the Mustang is the classic mid life crisis car!!! 100% agree on instruction.

 

[slowdown]

I guess the Mustang is the classic mid life crisis car!!! 100% agree on instruction.

So far all my track days have been with a professional instructor - been awesome!!!

 

[o-man]

I’m 56, been doing this since my mid 20’s. Nowhere near as good as shape as you are, but I manage to stay alive during the hot summer months track days.
sounds like to me you are headed in the right direction. The go fast crack pipe can be a doozy to live with but I think you can have fun with limited modifications. Just read your build sheet. Lots of nice parts! Depending on how far off the deep end you want to go, you could go with a decent spring setup like the Ford Performance or BMR or a coil over set up from Cortex or the like. I saw rear camber adjusters but saw nothing about front plates. You’ll definitely want to dial in some negative camber

 

[slowdown]

I’m 56, been doing this since my mid 20’s. Nowhere near as good as shape as you are, but I manage to stay alive during the hot summer months track days.
sounds like to me you are headed in the right direction. The go fast crack pipe can be a doozy to live with but I think you can have fun with limited modifications. Just read your build sheet. Lots of nice parts! Depending on how far off the deep end you want to go, you could go with a decent spring setup like the Ford Performance or BMR or a coil over set up from Cortex or the like. I saw rear camber adjusters but saw nothing about front plates. You’ll definitely want to dial in some negative camber

It has front plates I just don't know the brand. Right now we are at -2.4 front camber with 6.7 caster and 0.04 toe and -1.9 rear camber 0.12 toe. I'm fortunate to have a good alignment shop nearby run by a former racer and he knows Mustangs.

It's really just the suspension I need to replace and I've been researching that heavily and still haven't decided. When I do that this fall I'm also doing the half shafts and drive shaft and all bearings.

 

[302BOB]

I guess the Mustang is the classic mid life crisis car!!!

Hey, I resemble that remark...............I was 55 when I got my Boss.....not having driven a manual since my early 20's.....

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

Your friend is totally right. So if you’re a cold hard rational individual then listen to him. Make it a Miata or a civic so consumables are as cheap as possible.

Or if you’re like me you know the above, but love how your pig looks, accelerates, and just makes you feel enough that you blow through more money than you need to getting the same lap times as said Miata and don’t regret it for a minute. Love is irrational regardless if it’s a woman or a car so do what makes you happiest in the end.

 

[FilxNZ]

I'm enjoying this thread, such a nuanced topic and so much is down to personal taste and/or opinion.

Looking at your points #2 and #3 they seem to be addressed already above. I take a bit of umbrage with #1, only as I get a bit frustrated with "buy a Miata, you'll end up being a better driver" crowd. Sure maybe that's true, however I have driven slow cars and fast cars on track and all of them I feel like I have learned something from the experience. If you feel like the car is more than you need and you're not enjoying it then sure, get something else. But if you enjoy the Mustang and love driving it who cares if it's more capable than you are as a driver?

(Actually while I'm touching on the topic of track car "trueisms" the other one that I struggle with is the old, "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow". I don't especially agree with that sentiment. IMHO the correct answer is every car is fun to drive for it's own reason, hell you never feel like you're driving slow anyway even if you are well within the limits of the car. If you're driving to your personal limits and having fun then any car is rewarding. A few weeks ago when I was out in the wet at our local track and tip toeing around trying to find traction and adhesion, of course the Mustang was waaaaaayyyyy more than i needed, but it was pure, unadulterated fun!)

Ultimately I think it probably won't take you long to get your skill level to close to the limit of your car. And I kind of think for the type of events you describe that you want to do it's good to have a car with slightly higher limits. It means they're forgiving to the occasional driver error. Which, for example when say pick up the throttle a bit early on corner exit and sliding the car a bit, could be the differnece between being mildy annoyed at screwing up a good lap or ending your day early with a bent car.

Anyway, hope that adds something of value to this thread and I'm looking forward to reading what other thoughts and comments people put forward.

 

[slowdown]

Wow - really appreciate the honesty and humility of everyone. This forum really does have a good group of people unlike some of the other ones I’ve been on. I agree with basically all the sentiments.

One thing I forgot to mention is I never started this endeavor to have a car I can’t take out on a nice Saturday or an evening after work and rip around the back roads. I put a full Alpine system in the car that is the most amazing sound system I’ve ever owned and I so enjoy the windows down and sound up on those drives.

I think my head is clearing from that conversation. The bar - which I’ve already purchased - is in production and will be here first week of August. Everything else is ready to go in the car. So I think I’m just going to set her up and enjoy the process.

This fall when I have some more disposable cash around I will replace the suspension, half shafts, bearings and drive shaft.

Realistically - after that it will primarily be just maintaining the car and changing things if I want to - she won’t really “need” anything.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

It is hard to have the discipline to have a dual use car that’s fun in both.

I think this is where the “track specials” shine (GT350 or 20+ GT500 or new Mach). They come fully engineered for street/streetcar trackday use and are good at both. With an alignment, brake fluid flush and pads they are capable of speeds that will do just fine up to local TT class times, yet keep all the Ford OEM engineering for reliability, ease of driving, emissions legal etc. The downside for them is up front cost, obvs. The good news is they will maintain their value if you don’t throw tons of mods at it.

If you want to go beyond this point, then you should weigh built race car (that’s not raced out as Blacksheep said) vs building your own, and keep your street car street. Most people that end up here with a Shelby have slid down the slope!

 

[blacksheep-1]

Your friend is totally right. So if you’re a cold hard rational individual then listen to him. Make it a Miata or a civic so consumables are as cheap as possible.

Or if you’re like me you know the above, but love how your pig looks, accelerates, and just makes you feel enough that you blow through more money than you need to getting the same lap times as said Miata and don’t regret it for a minute. Love is irrational regardless if it’s a woman or a car so do what makes you happiest in the end.

To a large extent this is true, if you look at the GS and TCR times at Lime Rock this past weekend the fastest TCR car would qualify about mid pack in GS.
Mazda has its' act together with the performance enhancements of the Miata, they are great handling and hard to beat (sort of like an MGB that doesn't rust and will actually start) however, I'm a muscle car guy through and through, wouldn't be caught dead in a Miata no matter how much sense it makes.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

To a large extent this is true, if you look at the GS and TCR times at Lime Rock this past weekend the fastest TCR car would qualify about mid pack in GS.
Mazda has its' act together with the performance enhancements of the Miata, they are great handling and hard to beat (sort of like an MGB that doesn't rust and will actually start) however, I'm a muscle car guy through and through, wouldn't be caught dead in a Miata no matter how much sense it makes.

You have to know thyself.

I grew up around sprint cars (not driving), drag racers and other high HP stuff and then raced 1000cc superbikes because I couldn’t afford a high hp road race car (and garage/shop) in my 20’s. I was in part drawn to road racing because as Carroll Smith points out, a road course is a series of drag races, and the cost of a 410 sprinter motor is terrifying

A Miata is just never going to be fun to drag race unless you go nuts with it.

 

[Stan Whitney]

It is hard to have the discipline to have a dual use car that’s fun in both.

I think this is where the “track specials” shine (GT350 or 20+ GT500 or new Mach). They come fully engineered for street/streetcar trackday use and are good at both. With an alignment, brake fluid flush and pads they are capable of speeds that will do just fine up to local TT class times, yet keep all the Ford OEM engineering for reliability, ease of driving, emissions legal etc. The downside for them is up front cost, obvs. The good news is they will maintain their value if you don’t throw tons of mods at it.

If you want to go beyond this point, then you should weigh built race car (that’s not raced out as Blacksheep said) vs building your own, and keep your street car street. Most people that end up here with a Shelby have slid down the slope!

After years of modifying cars for mostly autocrossing, the above is a really good point - took me 20yrs to figure it out. The current crop of super pony's are very capable, and the upfront cost pays off in the end when you decide to move on, but the buy in is steep.

Another option, run the current car a bit more - up to a point. Roll bar /Saftey equipment is smart, go with a proven, simple suspension (like FRPP shocks and springs), then spend money on tires/brakes/entry fees to get more seat time. I think this solution works even for TTs a few times a year.

If you truly get hit with the W2W bug, look to buy/build a beater S550 track car, and you can transfer some of your old parts over (safety, suspension, wheels etc) to keep some of the original investment working for you.

 

[stevbd]

"I think you should stop where you are at and sell the Mustang (even though it's a great car and you can have a lot of fun) and just buy a used race car for the track. The race car will be safer, way easier to work on, have better suspension components, and be significantly stiffer with a welded cage. Otherwise, you are going to constantly be throwing money at a car that's no longer really a viable street car nor is it a race car and it's just going to be a tweener that's constantly a problem if you are doing regular track days".

I guess what I'm saying is 5 to 6 track days and a handful of time trail races a year going to be that difficult to keep up with in this car or is he 100% on point and is it the "more" fiscally responsible idea that will enable the most enjoyment.

Thanks

@slowdown I think you and your friend are talking past each other. It appears he is focused on racing and yes, if you are going racing you should build a race car. But no, it does not appear you are looking to go racing. And no, you don't need a gutted race car to have a total blast and learn a ton at track days. I have a 2011 GT with 150K miles on it, about 5K of those on the track, totally stock and original engine, trans, clutch, drivetrain. "Constantly a problem" on the track?? Not at all, just the opposite.

To the extent your friend is suggesting a race car is a more fiscally responsible idea.... well that is the first time I've seen "race car" and "fiscally responsible" in the same sentence. Besides the whole extra car you will also need all the top dollar zoot that goes on a race car, a trailer, a tow vehicle, storage space, and all that stuff breaks and needs maintenance just like the car you already have - except more often and at a higher price point. I think building a race car is a significant extra commitment.

I also question "more enjoyable." Yes, a gutted track car is faster, more pure, and "enjoyable" on the track. But your car hardly looks boring. And what about the other 360 days or so of the year when the race car is just sitting in some garage?

You have a perfect fun track day car and I love it, go drive the wheels off that thing.