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S550 In a conundrum - would appreciate a discussion

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ChrisM

Mostly harmless.
1,180
1,419
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
South Carolina
I dunno, if selling the car is an option and you want a dual-use car, it seems like selling the current car as-is and then getting another used one that's bone stock would be better. Then you could put the safety gear in that right away and modify it progressively using the extensive knowledge here (or just do what I should have done in the first place and buy the Ford Racing kit) so it's the way you want it from the get-go.
 
20
28
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Howell, NJ
I dunno, if selling the car is an option and you want a dual-use car, it seems like selling the current car as-is and then getting another used one that's bone stock would be better. Then you could put the safety gear in that right away and modify it progressively using the extensive knowledge here (or just do what I should have done in the first place and buy the Ford Racing kit) so it's the way you want it from the get-go.
That’s also possible but not likely. I’m too attached to this car to sell it for another Mustang. I’m not that kinda guy LOL.
 
1,119
1,110
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Lenoir City TN
You don't need a race prepped car to have fun at the track. Your Mustang can take you a long way and you will be surprised how much you can improve as a driver with the car you have in a short time. Dual use cars are a series of compromises. Some mods designed for the track make the car less desirable on the street. You have to choose what is more important to you when choosing mods.

A roll bar of any type basically makes the back seat unusable. A six point bar with door bars makes it hard to get in and out. I sacrificed the safety of a six point bar for a 4 point bar to make the car more streetable.

A halo seat was mentioned in the first post. These are great for driver retention and safety on the track, but make it hard to look over your shoulder on the street. You can always swap seats back and forth between track outings or choose a non halo fixed back racing seat. Also, many track day organizations require equal retention for driver and passenger. They want the right seat instructor to have the same level of safety as the driver. This is an added expense to consider.
 
20
28
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Howell, NJ
You don't need a race prepped car to have fun at the track. Your Mustang can take you a long way and you will be surprised how much you can improve as a driver with the car you have in a short time. Dual use cars are a series of compromises. Some mods designed for the track make the car less desirable on the street. You have to choose what is more important to you when choosing mods.

A roll bar of any type basically makes the back seat unusable. A six point bar with door bars makes it hard to get in and out. I sacrificed the safety of a six point bar for a 4 point bar to make the car more streetable.

A halo seat was mentioned in the first post. These are great for driver retention and safety on the track, but make it hard to look over your shoulder on the street. You can always swap seats back and forth between track outings or choose a non halo fixed back racing seat. Also, many track day organizations require equal retention for driver and passenger. They want the right seat instructor to have the same level of safety as the driver. This is an added expense to consider.
I purchased the car with the rear seats already deleted and a harness bar installed (which is coming out). I also purchased it knowing it was nowhere near a daily driver. I am lucky in that I pull out of my garage and can go for a 30-45 minute drive with the car all basically all on county roads and have fun.

All of this has been considered which is why I purchased a pair of seats. Both driver and passenger will have 6 point Sabelt harnesses with 2 points to the bar and 4 points to Planted backing plates with welded nuts.

The reason I went with ABF fabrications bar is because it is designed to still be useable with the 3 point belts and stock seats and the door bars are removable. https://abffabrication.com/shop/ford-mustang-s550-rollbar-2015/ A buddy that used to run a Porsche GT cup team told me "I don't care what anyone says but getting a roll bar and not having any side impact protection is useless even if it is bolt in protection it's going to make a enough of a difference if you go off the track (or hillclimb) and take a hard side impact." His attitude is why not get the additional protection. The backing plate for the forward points are large and have welded nuts so I can easily check the torque specs on them as well as all the other contact points.

I have enough friends that have the OMP HTE-R seat and drive the car on weekends without any issues. For the passenger side I got a WRC-R which is the non-halo cousin of the HTE-R for an instructor or passenger.

That has been the plan until the long conversation this past weekend. If he wasn't such a good friend since childhood and so knowledgeable about race cars I would have been like "yeah man that's probably true but I'm just doing the Mustang thing and it's all good" but because I trust his experience so much it really made me think.

But after listening to you guys and talking to my performance shop and other people I really don't think I'm on the wrong track at all. I want to have fun on track days - be safe - and do the occasional against the clock race for fun. Generally, the minimum requirements for SCCA Hillclimbs and GTA (Global Time Attack) racing in Street Modified Class are 4 point bar (6 point recommended), SFI/FIA approved racing seat, SFI/FIA approved 5, 6, or 7 point harness, SFI/FIA approved racing suit (gloves and shoes), SFI/FIA approved arm restraints (or nets) and fire extinguisher. ABF constructs the 6 point bar to full compliance - tube diameter and hardware size.
 

ChrisM

Mostly harmless.
1,180
1,419
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
South Carolina
I've also been told the opposite about 6 point roll bars, that they aren't as safe as a 4 point. There's a high likelihood that in a side impact your extremities will bang the door bar, so it must be padded. There's also the chance that it'll get bent inward because they're not properly reinforced to withstand a side impact. I don't know what effect this door bar has on any side impact air bags. This doesn't happen on race cars because they typically have the inner portion of the door and air bags removed and the cage fills that space (still padded), the cage itself being properly reinforced to withstand a side impact and not bend inward. Roll bars are designed to mitigate the effects of rolling over, preventing the roof from falling on your head while you're strapped into an upright position in a race seat with harnesses. It seems like it's mostly the drag race crowd that uses door bars, but they aren't running around in a pack of other vehicles (not that accidents don't happen there either).

Inevitably there's always a debate about safety modifications. There's usually a crowd that (rightfully so) will say that the safest thing on track is the full monty (cage, harness, fire suppression, etc) or stick with the stock safety equipment. Most of us wind up somewhere in between with the roll bar.

Again, that's what I've "heard" and haven't seen any reason not to heed it, but we've got people on here that actually build cages who can speak much more intelligently on the subject and dispel my misconceptions.
 

ChrisM

Mostly harmless.
1,180
1,419
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
South Carolina
Without a proper engineering structural analysis it’s guesswork. I’m sure there are accident hypotheticals that could go either way. I feel like asking track safety crews about their gut on this next trackday though.

For sure you don’t want to impact an unpadded bar with your body parts!
That's the problem when discussing safety...it's pretty easy to fall down the rabbit hole of "what ifs." Problem is, all sorts of crazy @#$% happens on track. I saw a brand new (at the time) bone stock C7 Corvette hydroplane down a straight and impact a guard rail at full speed and the guy just walked away. Then you get stuff where you're sure the driver is perfectly fine in a finely-tuned racecar and it's a disaster.
 

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