intake manifold heat insulation

[steveespo]

Injection molded plastic intakes are one of the best engine technologies that the automakers have come up with over the last 15 years. I don't know who was first but;
Light weight, less thermal conductivity, easier to manufacture complex shapes economically make them a very good idea.

Down sides; They will melt in a fire, they will crack if you over torque them, they will break if you drop a 15" Crescent wrench on them.
Other than that I can't think of anything.
Steve

 

[isrboss]

I would have to disagree when it comes to Ford knowing best. Have you had the clutch pedal stick to the floor? The assist spring was definitely a bad idea on Ford's part. You can't tell me there is nothing you could do to your car that would be better then stock and yet still last just as long.

I'm strictly speaking for reliability, making things fast is easy, but how long will it last? Who here is an engineer, and can tell me that assist spring is *only* for your leg? Maybe it also assists something else.

 

[isrboss]

Injection molded plastic intakes are one of the best engine technologies that the automakers have come up with over the last 15 years. I don't know who was first but;
Light weight, less thermal conductivity, easier to manufacture complex shapes economically make them a very good idea.

Down sides; They will melt in a fire, they will crack if you over torque them, they will break if you drop a 15" Crescent wrench on them.
Other than that I can't think of anything.
Steve

BASF, and great stuff, but if you remember how many problems Ford had with the 4.6 intake plenum, I would say it was all due to heat. Redesign had an aluminum coolant modification. Not an engineer, but they did take the hottest area and get rid of the plastic.

 

[Grant 302]

I'm strictly speaking for reliability, making things fast is easy, but how long will it last? Who here is an engineer, and can tell me that assist spring is *only* for your leg? Maybe it also assists something else.

I'm an engineer, but I can't tell you if the spring is there for any other reason. Personally, I think it should have been left off the Boss and maybe GT, since the spring is not on the GT500 pedal assembly.

Injection molded plastic intakes are one of the best engine technologies that the automakers have come up with over the last 15 years. I don't know who was first but;
Light weight, less thermal conductivity, easier to manufacture complex shapes economically make them a very good idea.

Down sides; They will melt in a fire, they will crack if you over torque them, they will break if you drop a 15" Crescent wrench on them.
Other than that I can't think of anything.
Steve

Agreed that plastic intakes are one of the best engine upgrades...next to ditching pushrods : Earliest ones I recall from Ford were from '96, but I think some were used by '94 or '95. But they did suffer from issues with the coolant crossover breaking and updated it to aluminum in '01.
Nitrous guys don't like them for backfires...

 

[Justin]

So any way does any one want to actually talk about the original post? I know I would.

 

[Grant 302]

So any way does any one want to actually talk about the original post? I know I would.

I thought that didn't happen here?

 

[Brandon302]

In it's own weird run around way it was discussed. Not sure if anyone said it earlier, but I don't think you would feel 10hp at the crank.

 

[Grant 302]

In it's own weird run around way it was discussed. Not sure if anyone said it earlier, but I don't think you would feel 10hp at the crank.

I've never been able to feel 10 HP in a car. Even when it shows up on timeslips.

But the original claims *might* be able to save that much HP over a heat-soaked engine and intake.

I'd definitely put foil type insulators or reflective barriers on the whole intake tract if the foam and plastic are removed. Doing just the underside without OEM insulators would be a waste.

 

[isrboss]

I'm an engineer, but I can't tell you if the spring is there for any other reason. Personally, I think it should have been left off the Boss and maybe GT, since the spring is not on the GT500 pedal assemby

What kind of an engineer are you? If you removed that spring I would suspect you seen schematics and seen why mechanical engineers put it there, and determined it to be over engineered? I find myself having fun with my car, and you can clearly see in my videos that I drive the Boss with no shifting problems. Am I magical? Most likely not, do I know what I'm doing, maybe.

 

[Grant 302]

What kind of an engineer are you? If you removed that spring I would suspect you seen schematics and seen why mechanical engineers put it there, and determined it to be over engineered? I find myself having fun with my car, and you can clearly see in my videos that I drive the Boss with no shifting problems. Am I magical? Most likely not, do I know what I'm doing, maybe.

I graduated with a Civil degree. Switched from Mechanical, when I gave up on working in the automotive industry. Didn't want to move to Detroit.

Personally, I haven't had any issues with either of my cars' clutch pedals sticking. So I haven't looked into it too much, and I have not yet removed either spring. My opinion though, is that the system has a flaw when pressure from the hydraulic side is reduced (perhaps from overheating/air bubbles), and the mechanical advantage from the assist spring overcomes the return spring so the pedal sticks to the floor. After reading about the issues online, I did take preventative measures on my cars by switching to DOT4 fluid and vacuum bleeding from the reservoir side.

The trouble with many engineers, is that they often do not (correctly) consider how things will work 'in the real world'. Using the pedal assist spring with a hydraulic system sharing the brake fluid is just asking for trouble, or increased maintenance. As a driver, I don't like how the spring communicates a 'vague' feeling of the engagement point. The feel of the clutch is often different from cold to hot conditions.

If I do have any issues in the future...the assist spring is coming out.

Waay off topic, but where else would I answer this question?

 

[Justin]

I am going to try the heat shield out can't hurt anything. I will take the foam out from under the intake as iplan use a fan to blown on the car between runs at the track ( buy track I mean quarter mile type ) if my times suffer from it I will just put it back in.


As for the assist spring....I hate to tell you it's a beat to death debate about why they put it in there and should it stay or should it go. The reality is that a vast percentage of us have clutch problems be it sticking to the floor or half way sticking to the floor. And the fix for most is removing that spring. That spring is the only difference between the gt/boss and the gt500 pedal assembly. I know I have both. Ad I can tell you without the pedal is much smoother but it is slightly heavier.

By the way I know how to drive a stick been doing it for 17 years. Have owned mustangs most of my life and guess what ford gets it wrong a lot mostly with their transmissions and mostly with their clutches. Why would you think the boss would be any different?

It's a pointless debate take it out or don't but don't start berating others about not being an engineer or saying they put it there for a reason (the reason more often then not is that the majority want a cushy pedal or quite engine) unless you have cold hard facts to support your claims other then Internet hearsay just pass your piece on the subject and let it at that.

 

[steveespo]

i'm gonna buy the turkey pan (lets see how many real Ford experts are out there) for $80 and tell everyone I did a mod that got me 10 HP.
Steve

 

[isrboss]

I graduated with a Civil degree. Switched from Mechanical, when I gave up on working in the automotive industry. Didn't want to move to Detroit.

Personally, I haven't had any issues with either of my cars' clutch pedals sticking. So I haven't looked into it too much, and I have not yet removed either spring. My opinion though, is that the system has a flaw when pressure from the hydraulic side is reduced (perhaps from overheating/air bubbles), and the mechanical advantage from the assist spring overcomes the return spring so the pedal sticks to the floor. After reading about the issues online, I did take preventative measures on my cars by switching to DOT4 fluid and vacuum bleeding from the reservoir side.

The trouble with many engineers, is that they often do not (correctly) consider how things will work 'in the real world'. Using the pedal assist spring with a hydraulic system sharing the brake fluid is just asking for trouble, or increased maintenance. As a driver, I don't like how the spring communicates a 'vague' feeling of the engagement point. The feel of the clutch is often different from cold to hot conditions.

If I do have any issues in the future...the assist spring is coming out.

Waay off topic, but where else would I answer this question?

This is exactly what I did, and although the clutch feels weird for the first 100 miles or so (even after a brake bleed) it has worked great.

The part where engineers sometimes don't figure in the real world, I agree. In this case though, outside of drag racing, the clutch system works fine in daily and road racing. I agree the problem seems to come from heat/air in the hydraulics. Good to know who the engineers are here, don't worry I won't PM you too many questions in the future, haha!

 

[Grant 302]

i'm gonna buy the turkey pan (lets see how many real Ford experts are out there) for $80 and tell everyone I did a mod that got me 10 HP.
Steve

I'm not really a Ford guy, but I know what a Turkey pan is...the insulation in the original post serves a lot of the same function, but doesn't have to deal with oil.

I am going to try the heat shield out can't hurt anything. I will take the foam out from under the intake as i plan use a fan to blown on the car between runs at the track ( buy track I mean quarter mile type ) if my times suffer from it I will just put it back in.

For the drag strip, I'd take the foam out too...assuming you're not doing a lot of back-to-back runs. But for the same reasons, I don't think you'll get much from this heat shield.

 

[Justin]

For the drag strip, I'd take the foam out too...assuming you're not doing a lot of back-to-back runs. But for the same reasons, I don't think you'll get much from this heat shield.

yeah I dont have high hopes that it will help at the track but maybe if i ice it up real good before hand....

This is exactly what I did, and although the clutch feels weird for the first 100 miles or so (even after a brake bleed) it has worked great.

The part where engineers sometimes don't figure in the real world, I agree. In this case though, outside of drag racing, the clutch system works fine in daily and road racing. I agree the problem seems to come from heat/air in the hydraulics. Good to know who the engineers are here, don't worry I won't PM you too many questions in the future, haha!

before i did a clutch swap and removed the spring i tried all the "fixes" new heavy duty clutch line, dot 4 fluid, bleeding the system time and time again and removing the spring. none of them worked and it stuck to the floor on the street all the time. like i said some of us not all of us have not been so fortunate with our clutches and/or transmissions as others.

i loathe taking my car to the dealership. they almost always mess something up on my car or make it worse and they take FOREVER to make a decision on something that I just skipped all that and bought a Centerforce DYAD clutch and was done with my clutch problems. I now have a problem free clutch and trans....for now atleast.

 

[Grant 302]

In this case though, outside of drag racing, the clutch system works fine in daily and road racing.

I don't know about that...I don't think a clutch system failure at the strip is as dangerous as on a road course or the street.

You're welcome to PM questions...just don't hold me accountable for the quality of the answers! 8)

 

[steveespo]

Grant is my man. I fought many 351C intake leaks with those damn gasket/pans.

 

[VoodooBoss]

I'm a financial engineer does that count?

I'm no engineer, and if we do have engineers in this thread that know exactly why they are monkeying the previous engineering, please tell. I really think it is funny this is being discussed, because when I read threads like, I pulled this off and the engine sounds awesome, I removed this spring and it's great!

Not sure what's so funny about this. I don't know of anyone on this forum that removed their clutch helper spring just to pull it off just to say it felt great. Many of us have had the issue with the clutch pedal sticking. That's fact and not speculation. While removing the spring is a band-aid fix it's still a fix. The pedal assembly is identical to the GT500 except for the added spring. The spring makes the clutch pedal easier to depress. It does nothing else to for the car.

Humans are just so predictable, that they can not just look at something and not think, I can do it better, haha.

I always operate like this and I'm glad most do or we'd all still be in the stone age pushing our carts around with stone square wheels.

Most of the members on here that have done a lot of mods, are having mechanical issues on the road course[/b], and daily driving, I trust Ford in the reliability department.

There are many of us that are having clutch issues with no mods other than brake pads, tires and DOT 4 brake fluid. If our cars are advertised at track ready cars, RCWALP if you will, then we shouldn't have these issues at the track.

 

[VoodooBoss]

The part where engineers sometimes don't figure in the real world, I agree. In this case though, outside of drag racing, the clutch system works fine in daily and road racing.

The clutch system doesn't work well for road racing. I suggest you contact one of the race teams and ask them. They will tell you about lots of clutch failures. The clutch doesn't work too well for track days either.

 

[Jimmy Pribble]

Back on topic - I reached out to a head mechanic for a WC Boss and put this question to him - what's the deal with the foam?

He said:

It keeps the leaves out and the heat in.

He did not have any empirical data to share with me, but of course, that's easy enough to get. He reminded me that it's maybe more important to remove the coil pack covers, since they hold too much heat and coil packs have higher failure rates under extremely high temps. Track dogs might think about removing those on track days and then putting them back on for the street, or maybe even only for Cars & Coffee meets. Something to think about.