Interesting article on Manifolds done by VMP

Discussion in 'Drivetrain, Exhaust and Electrical' started by Mad Hatter, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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  2. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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  3. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    This is the VMP dyno graph for the GT350 vs the Ported 2018 GT manifold.

    upload_2018-9-18_16-22-19.png
     
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  4. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $587,402 Moderator

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    Interesting to see almost the exact opposite resonant nodes in the upper RPM ranges. Really makes a difference on these relatively high winding engines.
     
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  5. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    I was going to follow up on your previous idea of a 3.31 rear end gear (ordered) and thought that this relativley cheap manifold would be a good match.... (2nd 3rd and 4th instead of 3rd, 4th and 5th at the track).. The ported 2018 setup has a better curve then the Boss 302 manifold and is going for less then $600, would work well with my accufab 85mm TB and airaid CAI. Might be a bit greedy but shooting for 470 rwhp with the Intake only cams! (Keep postponing the engine job since we have roughtly 30 days between races and its hard to get free time).

    What I really liked was that the 2018 ported setup made more power at high rpm then the Boss manifold while giving more torque at the lower end.

    upload_2018-9-18_19-20-18.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
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  6. Eric62

    Eric62 TMO Intermediate

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    Very interesting article from all angles! Ford continues to develop the manifold designs as we can see. Plus they are back-dated to fit earlier 5.0's. If you are looking for more grunt in the midrange, its pretty clear the truck manifold will give you a 4-5% torque boost. Same as switching from a 3.15 to a 3.31 without having to turn more revs. Like the writer of the article, I'd like to see what a ported truck manifold would do.
     
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  7. GTerDUN

    GTerDUN TMO Intermediate

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    They mentioned the charge motion control valves were left in place for this test. I'd like to see if there's any difference without them because to my knowledge they're not compatible on the S197.
     
  8. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Yup, they have to be blocked off for the S197, the kit costs about 50 bucks
     
  9. Swine

    Swine TMO Advanced

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    Yeah ive considered the 18' but im not willing to neuter my Boss by removing a key marque feature for a few ponies. I plan on porting the Boss mani to go along with OPG's and LMR cam if its really that important to me.
     
  10. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    It all dependes on your end goals! Every race I have a bunch of faster cars chasing me and want to keep them at bay long enough to win the series! But these graphs from VMP really showed me why the boss manifold shines at over 7000rpm.... My buddies S550 gets left behind on the straights even though we have roughly the same hp. A ported 2018 setup would cost me less then US$600 vs a Cobrajet setup going for US$1800. But am thinking about porting my Boss setup as a stop gap......

    little by little its looking less like a Boss...... Speakers will probably come out now :)
     
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  11. noldevin

    noldevin TMO Intermediate

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    I have to take this test with many grains of salt, as they made the ported 2018 look great and just so happen to sell one for $700 lol.
    They also: didn't do any other ported manifolds, stopped the pulls at 7500 where the boss and cj will likely carry on while the 18 drops, and somehow the truck mani made more power than the boss?
    numbers are also all about 15-20hp high for the setup they had.
     
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  12. Badger

    Badger TMO Intermediate

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    I just threw a ported 2018 and a JLT v2 CAI on my else wise bone stock 2011. The results were... odd.

    Sadly the tuning shop did not run a baseline on their own Dyno.
    But I ran a baseline a couple weeks ago on my go-to shops Dyno and did another pull this weekend to get a better comparison.

    This is what I got. Both on the same dyno:
    RED is stock (no this is not mixed up)
    BLUE is with the 2018 manifold, CAI and a tune.

    Dynojet_stock_vs_tune_crop.jpg

    387whp is definitely high for a stock motor with just a muffler. But we did three pulls each day with consistent numbers, so there is no obvious reason why any of these graphs should be off. Without the CAI I would be making less power than stock everywhere.
    I`m working with the tuning shop on trying to figure out what is going on here.

    Edit:
    This is the dyno sheet I got from the tuner. The correction factor is different so the numbers themselves are a couple percent inflated.
    RED and GREEN are the 2018 ported manifold, JLT v2 CAI, tune
    BLUE is the 2018 ported manifold, stock airbox, tune

    Dynojet_2018_CAI_tune_crop.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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  13. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Just checking... was that with the charge valve things blocked out as its a gen1??

    " Putting this on your 2011-2014 Mustang? You'll need the CMRC limiters because the 11-14 cars don't have CMRC provisions." From VMP website

    Hope you get that sorted out!
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  14. Badger

    Badger TMO Intermediate

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    Yep, it came with lockouts pre-installed and I got the whole shebang from a reputable shop.
    I also have not seen a Gen1 GT manifold vs a 2018 manifold comparison on a Gen1 yet.
     
  15. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $587,402 Moderator

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    Makes sense to me, if you consider cams to be limiting top end performance. Or that either intakes aren't restrictions with the GT cams.
     
  16. 2012-Boss

    2012-Boss TMO Addict

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    The graphs look like I would expect. The first graph stops before 7,000 RPM, above which is where I would expect to see any big gains over the stock S197 GT manifold. The 2018 also shows a loss of midrange torque without the charge motion plates, which again is what I would have expected.

    If it was me, I would stick with the Cobrajet manifold on an S197. For an S550, I would use either the GT350 or 2018 manifold with the charge motion valves to retain low and midrange.
     
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  17. Badger

    Badger TMO Intermediate

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    The first graph stops at 7000 because the redline is based of the second graph. According to that one there is no power after 7000 that would warrant over revving a stock block.

    I expected almost exactly this graph, aside the plateau around 6000. But I also expected everything to be at least 30-40 whp higher below the curve. It´s kinda nuts that this mod combo with a tune is worse than stock.
    A Cobra jet setup costs a leg and an arm. If money was of no issue I`d had one already... or just a 2018 pp2 ;)

    Lets see, we`ll be debugging this over the next days. Worst case I`ll be going back to the GT manifold.
     
  18. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Makes me happy I just decided to port my original Boss manifold!
     
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  19. 2012-Boss

    2012-Boss TMO Addict

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    My read on the second graph, at least the green and red lines, is that it is worth spinning the motor to 7,500 RPM. The power peaks are at 6,800 and 7,000 with a flat curve from about 6,500 to 7,500. Since power is not falling off, you can extend time spent in lower gears which equals faster acceleration. It may also eliminate an up shift in between some corners.

    The stock GT block holds up fine with a 7,500 RPM redline, at least non-aspirated.

    I would not have expected this below the curve. The lack of charge motion valves will kill low and mid-range power production. Also, you would need to spin the motor to 7,500 or more and compare that to the stock manifold at the same RPM.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
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  20. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Will stay tuned in too see how this turns out.. We have a few club S197 cars that were looking into the upgrade.
     
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