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Is an oil cooler mandatory for a barely tracked 2013-GT? (Update: YES!)

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Grant 302 said:
Lol, I was up with insomnia when I posted that.

Track pack cars that are factory filled with 5w50 have a unique calibration. I was talking with Ford Performance about that yesterday. It makes a marked difference in how the phasers operate (the viscosity of the oil). For this of you with track key, the instructions talk about this with regards to the lopey idle. You are instructed to be sure to use 5w50.

thanks,
BT

...or should I change my name to Doc Spec??
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
And that does explain why TracKey idle changes as the car gets warmer. What I don't see is how phaser operation would be different in track use between TP car running 5W-50 and and 5.0 running 5W-20. I should probably ask them if anything like that is changed on my FR Procal tune.
 
680
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Grant 302 said:
And that does explain why TracKey idle changes as the car gets warmer. What I don't see is how phaser operation would be different in track use between TP car running 5W-50 and and 5.0 running 5W-20. I should probably ask them if anything like that is changed on my FR Procal tune.

Grant, I would think that on track/high load would be where the differences between 5W-20 and 5W-50 would be the greatest. One is thicker than the other once they are hot.

The Boss track key owner instructions specifically call out 5W-50 but the current track cal instructions for non Boss S197s does not.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
BigTaco said:
Grant, I would think that on track/high load would be where the differences between 5W-20 and 5W-50 would be the greatest. One is thicker than the other once they are hot.

The Boss track key owner instructions specifically call out 5W-50 but the current track cal instructions for non Boss S197s does not.

Understood that viscosity will be different and that's the whole point of running 5W-50 on the track. However, I don't see how that would affect phaser operation or commanded cam positions anywhere but idle or low rpm, if that.

Track pack cars only have the 5W-50 oil fill cap for '13 and '14. Not so sure what's in the manual for those.
 
BigTaco said:
Grant, I would think that on track/high load would be where the differences between 5W-20 and 5W-50 would be the greatest. One is thicker than the other once they are hot.

The Boss track key owner instructions specifically call out 5W-50 but the current track cal instructions for non Boss S197s does not.

So now I am left with this technical struggle. Is it "better" for the engine to stay with the thinner less protective 5w20 oil on the track, or gain the added protection of the thicker 5w50 and hope the thicker oil doesn't do any damage to the cam-phasing system?

Honest question, how bad could it be?
 
Mxkon said:
So now I am left with this technical struggle. Is it "better" for the engine to stay with the thinner less protective 5w20 oil on the track, or gain the added protection of the thicker 5w50 and hope the thicker oil doesn't do any damage to the cam-phasing system?

Honest question, how bad could it be?
Call Ford Performance and ask them about running thicker oil when you track the car.
 
680
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VoodooBOSS said:
Call Ford Performance and ask them about running thicker oil when you track the car.

This. Speaking for my self and a few of the other members here on the site, we have established contacts at Ford Performance over the years that help to cut to the chase a get the technical info we are looking for.
 
**FOLLOW UP**
For anyone reading this later on and having similar concerns or questions about occasionally or beginning to track a Mustang GT (non track pack)

VoodooBOSS said:
Call Ford Performance and ask them about running thicker oil when you track the car.

I have talked to guy at Ford Performance and he has assured me that 5W50 is the oil that the 5.0 Coyote engine needs under track conditions (high RPM & temp). and the oil I should be running at the track. However, because thicker oil will impact the cam-phasing system, it is recommended that I use the suggested 5W20 when im not at the track.

With this knowledge and per my original concerns about vehicle temperatures climbing up past an acceptable safe range I am doing the following:

1) Upgrade oil to 5W50 for all track use (HPDEs for the foreseeable future)
2) Install oil temperature sensor & gauge to help accurately monitor temps based on my track use.
3) Install upgraded radiator to optimize existing coolant system.
4) Install transmission cooling scoop to help keep transmission a bit cooler.
5) If oil temps are climbing to high at my next event climb out of a safe range -> Install oil cooler (Setrab 172 seems like a good choice).

This should solve my issues/concerns at least until I build the car up into more of a track toy and a LOT less of a mixed use vehicle.

Thanks everybody,
 

302 Hi Pro

Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
2,009
441
Southeast
Mxkon said:
**FOLLOW UP**
For anyone reading this later on and having similar concerns or questions about occasionally or beginning to track a Mustang GT (non track pack)

I have talked to guy at Ford Performance and he has assured me that 5W50 is the oil that the 5.0 Coyote engine needs under track conditions (high RPM & temp). and the oil I should be running at the track. However, because thicker oil will impact the cam-phasing system, it is recommended that I use the suggested 5W20 when im not at the track.

With this knowledge and per my original concerns about vehicle temperatures climbing up past an acceptable safe range I am doing the following:

1) Upgrade oil to 5W50 for all track use (HPDEs for the foreseeable future)
2) Install oil temperature sensor & gauge to help accurately monitor temps based on my track use.
3) Install upgraded radiator to optimize existing coolant system.
4) Install transmission cooling scoop to help keep transmission a bit cooler.
5) If oil temps are climbing to high at my next event climb out of a safe range -> Install oil cooler (Setrab 172 seems like a good choice).

This should solve my issues/concerns at least until I build the car up into more of a track toy and a LOT less of a mixed use vehicle.

Thanks everybody,

Mxkon:

Sounds like a good starting plan to manage temps on your Mustang during Track days. I didn't search this thread, but I assume you already have the front brake cooling hose kit and Dot 4 fluid installed.

When do you plan to run your next Track session? Keep us posted.

Thanks,
302 Hi Pro
 
72
65
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
New Jersey
Since they specced 5w50 for the track pack, I'm assuming the differences in the VCT system can be tuned in.
I wonder if you could just get a tune and have the tuner account for the heavier oil so you don't always have to swap it?

Also, regarding the transmission scoop - hasn't this been proven to significantly hurt engine cooling due to causing pressure buildup in the engine bay?
 
302 Hi Pro said:
Mxkon:

Sounds like a good starting plan to manage temps on your Mustang during Track days. I didn't search this thread, but I assume you already have the front brake cooling hose kit and Dot 4 fluid installed.

When do you plan to run your next Track session? Keep us posted.

Thanks,
302 Hi Pro

My mustang already has the Boss302 brake duct cooling kit, Carbotech pads, and Motul 660 brake fluid. Along with Ford Performance finned differential cover, and Redline transmission, engine oil, and diff fluids.

I will be at VIR April 1-2, so I have to wait a couple months to test everything fully, but I will report back after I have a thorough test.
 
369
146
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Waco, TX
I have the track apps with mine. While on track my oil temps stay in the green using 5w20 but i have 302s grille and Tigerhood. I plan on switching to 5w50 to see what it does this season. If i need to upgrade the radiator i will but so far i haven't need it. I know on my wifes car i cut the hood blanket to open the vents. No need to worry about the open filter as she as the airraid shield covering the filter.
 
UPDATE:
Yes if you have any aptitude or previous experience with track driving(HPDEs in my case) a 5.0 Coyote motor going over 6,000 RPMs NEEDS an oil cooler to stay under 260F.

I had a great weekend at VIR running the full course, I ran with the BMWCCA and weather conditions were perfect (partly clowdy, 60F-72F ambient all weekend). After the first session I was routinely seeing oil temps climbing up to 260F, on day 2 I started building some confidence and hunting down M2s and M4s(obviously not being driven to their max) using every bit of 7,600RPM and watched the temps climb to a high of 282F which I believe is in the Kenny Loggins zone of sustained temps. I can link the video if anyone is interested.

The car still has the factory grill which I know is supposed to be too restrictive but with the Mishimoto upgraded radiator the coolant temps stayed spot on in the middle all weekend. As previously discussed I ran Redline 5W50 oil, added Redline water-wetter to the coolant, had an Autometer Spec-Pro oil temp gauge installed on a sandwich plate to keep an accurate eye on oil temps and have found that things are climbing up to and over 280F.

I am now planning to build an oil cooler system around the Setrab 172(I might try for the 160 if this will still be ok with oil pressure - more research to follow) and probably upgrade to a more free flowing upper & lower grill when I install everything.
On street tires and with only 2-4 HPDEs a year this seems like a bit overkill, but its a lot cheaper to add an oil cooler than it is to source and swap in a new motor.

Anyone make a set of quality and hopefully cheap brackets for a Setrab 1-serise?
 
Last edited:
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30
UPDATE:
Yes if you have any aptitude or previous experience with track driving(HPDEs in my case) a 5.0 Coyote motor going over 6,000 RPMs NEEDS an oil cooler to stay under 260F.

using every bit of 7,600RPM when i could

Sorry to go off topic but I've been wondering about this exact thing. You have a GT and the factory redline is 6700. What is a safe RPM To rev these things to. Are you modded to run that high?
 
Sorry to go off topic but I've been wondering about this exact thing. You have a GT and the factory redline is 6700. What is a safe RPM To rev these things to. Are you modded to run that high?
"Safe" is clearly an operative word here and anything over factory specs is imparting stresses on some component of the engine that Ford engineers decided should be limited to 6,700. However, after reading up on the subject for hours and hours there seem to be a lot of 5.0 Coyote motors being used in road course and especially drag racing that have been tuned to see 7,800, or 8,000 and most seem to be holding up well. I make this assertion of "most" based on the handful of people I have spoken with at HPDEs running much better prepared mustangs than mine, as well as the seemingly few forum threads about NA engines blown at high RPMs (few compaired to the # of threads about how engines fail after 5k miles of having a supercharger w/o any supporting engine mods).

To answer your question, my car has a simple dyno tune done by ProDyno in Fort Mill SC, that I added the options to 1) Remove factory top speed limiter. 2) Raise rev-limiter to 7,800(even thought I try to shift before this). 3) Ease up on how aggressively the factory limiter cut power when you do hit the limit.
I would gladly recommend ProDyno for their tuning as this has been a very satisfying product, their parts installation leaves a lot to be desired if I am honest, not so much that I would demand a refund, but enough that I wont recommend.
 

302 Hi Pro

Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
2,009
441
Southeast
Watson Racing has a nice 2013-14 Mustang Radiator duct kit, but unfortunately it's not available for the 2011/12's. The radiator duct work behind the bumper with a high flow grill helps the 2012's stay cooler.

I always want to see oil temps in the 225-260 (max) range.

302 Hi Pro
 

drano38

Wayne
1,130
318
Setrab 172 brackets might be as simple as angle aluminum bolted to the car, then down to the edge of the cooler. Look at the DIY thread for some ideas.
https://trackmustangsonline.com/threads/my-diy-oil-cooler-install-a-few-pics.6652/
+1 on VoodooBoss's comment (and others) -- remove the stock grill. We need to let air in. I've got a Saleen. Billet grills are popular too. It needs to be OPEN.
Add this honeycomb to keep rocks/tire boogers from damaging the fins.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Honeycomb-Radiator-Protector-19-x-26-Inch,3545.html
 

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