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Just pulled the trigger and track setup questions

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JScheier

Too Hot for the Boss!
Teamsketch said:
Another question about camber plates. On other cars I have had with IRS, if I ran more than one degree of camber difference between front and rear I would get oversteer. For example on the M3 I would run -2.5 degrees in the front and -1.5 degree in the rear. How does this work with a solid rear axle on the Boss? Are there any provisions to change camber or toe? I am concerned that if I run agressive settings up front (-2.5) I will save the tires but get massive oversteer.

Nope. Stick axles work differently. You'll be fine with -3* to -4* of camber on this car... although it is nearly impossible to get that at stock ride heights.
 
JScheier said:
Teamsketch said:
Another question about camber plates. On other cars I have had with IRS, if I ran more than one degree of camber difference between front and rear I would get oversteer. For example on the M3 I would run -2.5 degrees in the front and -1.5 degree in the rear. How does this work with a solid rear axle on the Boss? Are there any provisions to change camber or toe? I am concerned that if I run agressive settings up front (-2.5) I will save the tires but get massive oversteer.

Nope. Stick axles work differently. You'll be fine with -3* to -4* of camber on this car... although it is nearly impossible to get that at stock ride heights.
Yep. I was able to get -2.7 and mine seems to be on the high side.
 
cloud9 said:
JScheier said:
Teamsketch said:
Another question about camber plates. On other cars I have had with IRS, if I ran more than one degree of camber difference between front and rear I would get oversteer. For example on the M3 I would run -2.5 degrees in the front and -1.5 degree in the rear. How does this work with a solid rear axle on the Boss? Are there any provisions to change camber or toe? I am concerned that if I run agressive settings up front (-2.5) I will save the tires but get massive oversteer.

Nope. Stick axles work differently. You'll be fine with -3* to -4* of camber on this car... although it is nearly impossible to get that at stock ride heights.
Yep. I was able to get -2.7 and mine seems to be on the high side.

Any comments on how it affected the handling outside of being easier on the tires? Sharper turn-in? Any affect on the stock neutral feel?

Thanks.
 
Teamsketch said:
cloud9 said:
JScheier said:
Teamsketch said:
Another question about camber plates. On other cars I have had with IRS, if I ran more than one degree of camber difference between front and rear I would get oversteer. For example on the M3 I would run -2.5 degrees in the front and -1.5 degree in the rear. How does this work with a solid rear axle on the Boss? Are there any provisions to change camber or toe? I am concerned that if I run agressive settings up front (-2.5) I will save the tires but get massive oversteer.

Nope. Stick axles work differently. You'll be fine with -3* to -4* of camber on this car... although it is nearly impossible to get that at stock ride heights.
Yep. I was able to get -2.7 and mine seems to be on the high side.

Any comments on how it affected the handling outside of being easier on the tires? Sharper turn-in? Any affect on the stock neutral feel?

Thanks.
It definitely improved turn-in. I had the opportunity to drive someone's stock LS on the same track and same day I had gone from -1.7 with camber bolts to -2.2 with MM c/c plates on my car. I was also running 18 x 9.5 front wheels and 18 x 10.5 rears along with DTC 70/60 pads. I was almost 5 seconds faster in my regular Boss than the LS, so I was sorting through where it was all coming from in my mind. One of the things that jumped out at me (besides the relatively poor braking) was the loss of turn-in on the LS compared to my car. I don't feel I've given up any of the neutral handling at all, it still feels extremely balanced. I only got two or three track days at -2.7 at the end of the season versus about 16 days at -2.2, so I'm not 100% sure which is better or if somewhere in between may be optimal. Tire temps were pretty even, although I still tend to abuse the outside edge a bit :-X
 
Stock tire non-LS guys: what do you guys like for cold pressure on a long track? Just need a ballpark number, and I can adjust from there.
 
CaliMR said:
Stock tire non-LS guys: what do you guys like for cold pressure on a long track? Just need a ballpark number, and I can adjust from there.
FWIW, this is from the Boss Supplement regarding track prep:

• For track sessions, it is recommended to run 41 psi (283 kPa) hot for
the OEM tires, front and rear.
• Depending on track temperature, ambient temperature and driving
style, you may need to reduce the starting tire pressure by as
much as 4 psi (27 kPa).
• The starting pressure may be lower in the rear tires relative to the
front tires to achieve 41 psi (283 kPa) hot.
• Reset tire pressures to placard recommended pressures before
leaving the track.
 
I read it as reduce 4 from the hot temp, but that seems like it isn't enough. You are probably right. My E30 likes about 35 cold on 888s, and it is a lot lighter. Will find out soon ;D
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
8,746
2,768
Arizona, USA
Just put the PF01s in this weekend, very happy with the performance. This is not a very brake-intensive track, so I will have to wait a few events to report back on wear. However it didn't appear that they had really worn down at all after two days of use. Hell, my PF97 rears still look almost brand new after 4 events. No significant rotor wear on either front or rear.
 
I'm on my second set of rotors and my PF01s look like they are worn a little more than half way, but they startd out at 25m.

ArizonaGT, if you can't count 2 seconds between you and the car in front of you, then you are to close! ;D
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
8,746
2,768
Arizona, USA
smittytx said:
I'm on my second set of rotors and my PF01s look like they are worn a little more than half way, but they startd out at 25m.

ArizonaGT, if you can't count 2 seconds between you and the car in front of you, then you are to close! ;D

It only took me two seconds to late apex that turn and blast by him on the inside :)
 
Teamsketch said:
cloud9 said:
JScheier said:
Teamsketch said:
Another question about camber plates. On other cars I have had with IRS, if I ran more than one degree of camber difference between front and rear I would get oversteer. For example on the M3 I would run -2.5 degrees in the front and -1.5 degree in the rear. How does this work with a solid rear axle on the Boss? Are there any provisions to change camber or toe? I am concerned that if I run agressive settings up front (-2.5) I will save the tires but get massive oversteer.

Nope. Stick axles work differently. You'll be fine with -3* to -4* of camber on this car... although it is nearly impossible to get that at stock ride heights.
Yep. I was able to get -2.7 and mine seems to be on the high side.

Any comments on how it affected the handling outside of being easier on the tires? Sharper turn-in? Any affect on the stock neutral feel?

Thanks.

Gary, was -2.7 with the camber bolts and camber plates or just the plates? I am debating Vorshlags and MM plates and if I understand correctly, the Vorshlags have a bit more adjustment. I suspect somewhere around -3 is going to be what this car likes but it doesn't appear to be possible without lowering the car.
 
bolecailey said:
Teamsketch said:
cloud9 said:
JScheier said:
Teamsketch said:
Another question about camber plates. On other cars I have had with IRS, if I ran more than one degree of camber difference between front and rear I would get oversteer. For example on the M3 I would run -2.5 degrees in the front and -1.5 degree in the rear. How does this work with a solid rear axle on the Boss? Are there any provisions to change camber or toe? I am concerned that if I run agressive settings up front (-2.5) I will save the tires but get massive oversteer.

Nope. Stick axles work differently. You'll be fine with -3* to -4* of camber on this car... although it is nearly impossible to get that at stock ride heights.
Yep. I was able to get -2.7 and mine seems to be on the high side.

Any comments on how it affected the handling outside of being easier on the tires? Sharper turn-in? Any affect on the stock neutral feel?

Thanks.

Gary, was -2.7 with the camber bolts and camber plates or just the plates? I am debating Vorshlags and MM plates and if I understand correctly, the Vorshlags have a bit more adjustment. I suspect somewhere around -3 is going to be what this car likes but it doesn't appear to be possible without lowering the car.
That's with the MM camber plates and factory strut bolts. I can get -3.1 on one side but only -2.7 on the other. Seems common on this car to get more out of one side but not consistently driver or passenger. I only did one track weekend at -2.7 and still was rough on the outside front edges so it's possible you would want 3+ if you can get it. I would just be concerned about reducing straight line braking with that much camber, but might not be an issue. You'd just have to try it and see.
 

JScheier

Too Hot for the Boss!
bolecailey said:
I am debating Vorshlags and MM plates and if I understand correctly, the Vorshlags have a bit more adjustment. I suspect somewhere around -3 is going to be what this car likes but it doesn't appear to be possible without lowering the car.

Fair just released CAD drawings of the modified S197 plates from Vorshlag. -3* should be doable based on the changes.

You can follow them on facebook or their forum (www.vorshlag.com)
 
I have some vorshlag parts on my E30, no complaints at all with the workmanship, but they recommended the wrong length studs instead of just telling me they weren't sure. I didn't know until I got the first one in.
 

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