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Just remember when you think your suspension is messed up..

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Fabman

Dances with Racecars
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Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
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Santiago, Chile
I love those pics..... You can even see daylight under the inside rear tire for heavens sake! If one day I can get my car to do that I will be very content........ Yes...no Watts link required, Got it! o_O
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
2 words: "Weight Transfer".

Or one word: Squat.

Having trouble resisting the Nuances.... and asking how do you get to that state of zen...........

Not that hard to do it, if that alone is your goal. Pictures are gone thanks to p-bucket...but look at Roadhouse's build thread for some ideas.

Suspension
-H&R race springs
-Koni adjustable shocks/struts (yellows)
-MM CC plates at -3 degrees
-Metco UCA and mount
-KB rear LCAs and relo brackets
-MM panhard bar
-No rear sway bar

But like I mention above, setup for squat...and whole new driving dynamics, etc.
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
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Or one word: Squat.
One begets the other in this case....
But like I mention above, setup for squat...and whole new driving dynamics, etc.
Yes that whole car moving all over the place thing takes some getting used to, but it can be very effective. Personally, I've always liked stiff cars but I'm learning that with the weight and high CG of these turds you have to give a little to get a little. One thing thats important with a soft car, you have to have all your geometry right-bump steer etc. gets wild when the suspension travels to those extremes.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
One begets the other in this case....
Absolutely. Just trying to point that out for others. It's like setting up a drag car...that needs to turn.

Yes that whole car moving all over the place thing takes some getting used to, but it can be very effective. Personally, I've always liked stiff cars but I'm learning that with the weight and high CG of these turds you have to give a little to get a little. One thing thats important with a soft car, you have to have all your geometry right-bump steer etc. gets wild when the suspension travels to those extremes.

Agreed. Even simple settings like static camber. Maybe even reduced caster. Almost everything needs to be done reverse/opposite from a stiff setup.
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
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Stiff setups are often used to cover up bad geometry. Back in the day that's how it was done as a soft car often felt "Twitchy". So you'd limit the bad stuff by limiting the travel that caused bad geometry. It makes a very stable and predictable car, but grip is compromised. These days geometry is generally much better, so a softer setup can be run, and the trend has been in that direction.
 
6,363
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Absolutely. Just trying to point that out for others. It's like setting up a drag car...that needs to turn.

Exactly!

That setup plays to the cars strengths as well, center of corner..not so great, but getting into and out of..awesome. I think folks get into trouble soemtimes when they try to make a vehicle do what it's not designed to do, you can make it better maybe but stopping and going is what mustangs do best.
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
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Absolutely. Just trying to point that out for others. It's like setting up a drag car...that needs to turn.

Exactly!

That setup plays to the cars strengths as well, center of corner..not so great, but getting into and out of..awesome. I think folks get into trouble soemtimes when they try to make a vehicle do what it's not designed to do, you can make it better maybe but stopping and going is what mustangs do best.
I'm still trying to break my oval track habits and re learn to drive and setup for road course. This has been much more of a learning curve than I initially thought. I miss being able to add stagger to get the car to turn on the throttle and preload the bar to tighten the exit and it's frustrating for me. There are a whole bunch of parameters I can't use anymore and new ones I've never had to deal with. It's a little humbling.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Stiff setups are often used to cover up bad geometry.

I'm certain it will do that, but I doubt most Mustang drivers do it on purpose. Frankly, I believe most people *think* just lowered/stiffer setups handle better out of the box. I'd like to think most of us know better here.

You could also say the exact opposite: Soft setups can reveal bad geometry. Might be getting too philosophical though.

Maybe it's unreasonable to want a Mustang that's setup to handle as opposed to just stopping and going. But it is always my goal to try, and why I still have the V6 project planned as more of a momentum car.
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
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Good handling comes down to managing weight transfer. First back to front, then side to side and then front to back on corner exit. When we think of it in those terms it helps us analyze the cause and affect of changes made and maximize each sector....the rest is strategy. How do I want the car to act therefore how do I make it do it. If you tell it to do something slow, it may do it perfectly, but lap times may suffer. Strategy first, then application.

What do I want, how do I get there and what vehicle do I use to do it....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
1,246
1,243
In the V6L
Good handling comes down to managing weight transfer...

This is why shock setup is so important. Low-speed shock settings change how weight transfers when the suspension is changing position with driver inputs. They briefly increase or reduce the effective spring rate in the moment that the suspension is going from one "set" to another. High speed shock settings are about keeping the tires pressed to the pavement when the pavement is uneven, but the low-speed settings get you through the transitions.
 

yotah1

Ford Employee
386
598
Detroit
2 words: "Weight Transfer".
May I adress a big misconception or wrong use of terms here? weight transfer ... i can agree with "load transfer", because unless you actually didn't strap into your seat, or attach the seat to the car itself, and let your battery go loose in the trunk along with a spare tire and some tools, there isn't much "weight transfer" in a race car...
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
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May I adress a big misconception or wrong use of terms here? weight transfer ... i can agree with "load transfer", because unless you actually didn't strap into your seat, or attach the seat to the car itself, and let your battery go loose in the trunk along with a spare tire and some tools, there isn't much "weight transfer" in a race car...
Semantics.....the weight on the tire increases so you can call it weight transfer. The weight one tire gains is taken from another, so while static weight doesn't change, the dynamic weight on the tire does and so we can call it weight transfer. Load transfer is just another way of saying it.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Good handling comes down to managing weight transfer. First back to front, then side to side and then front to back on corner exit.

I think of it as more being able to 'round the limits of the circle of traction. Just as important to smoothly transition and be able to trail brake and roll into throttle. I don't care much for driving like an on-off switch, like I might drive an electric kart.

This is why shock setup is so important. Low-speed shock settings change how weight transfers when the suspension is changing position with driver inputs. They briefly increase or reduce the effective spring rate in the moment that the suspension is going from one "set" to another. High speed shock settings are about keeping the tires pressed to the pavement when the pavement is uneven, but the low-speed settings get you through the transitions.

Also why it's important or beneficial to have separate control over high speed and low speed damping. Not sure I'd try to make a car that can hold the squat without such control. When working with drag cars, I'd review tons of video to help with launch/shock/suspension tuning.
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
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I think of it as more being able to 'round the limits of the circle of traction. Just as important to smoothly transition and be able to trail brake and roll into throttle. I don't care much for driving like an on-off switch, like I might drive an electric kart.



Also why it's important or beneficial to have separate control over high speed and low speed damping. Not sure I'd try to make a car that can hold the squat without such control. When working with drag cars, I'd review tons of video to help with launch/shock/suspension tuning.

Yes, the circle of traction is why weight transfer matters....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
May I adress a big misconception or wrong use of terms here? weight transfer ... i can agree with "load transfer", because unless you actually didn't strap into your seat, or attach the seat to the car itself, and let your battery go loose in the trunk along with a spare tire and some tools, there isn't much "weight transfer" in a race car...

I think you're confusing terms. Load and weight are used synonymously in many ways. And 'weight transfer' is the common term with respect to cars. Both are the same units in physics. You can say there isn't any loose mass transfer, but the weight of the car certainly 'transfers' between the wheels in regards to suspension dynamics.
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
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What the face of the tire feels pressed against the tarmac is pressure expressed in pounds or KG as "Weight" and that change is dynamic. You could call it "PSI", you can call it "Load", you could call it a lot of things, but what matters is what's actually happening and I think we can all agree on that.
 

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