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Lifting front tire, Good or Bad?

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PatientZero

@restless_performance
825
865
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Kansas City, Missouri
Our last autocross a couple weeks ago my wife came out to take pictures. After reviewing said pictures I realized my car is lifting the inside front wheel on corner exit. Is this good or bad? I've seen people say things ranging from it's perfect to I need more rear spring, less front spring, less front rebound, etc. What say you guys? I saw a post from @DaveW from 2007 recommending stiffer springs.
10_30-1.jpg
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,356
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Aw, heck, don't worry, that is a Mustang trait and your fellow members of TMO are quite proud of you lifting your front end. In fact, we hope you can yank it up even higher as the pics are always impressive and put fear in folks with Camaros!
Keep lifting, it just shows the strength you are exercising - pun intended!
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
8,730
2,734
Arizona, USA
You can try more rear spring or more front bar, but unless there is a handling or traction problem, I'd probably just leave it alone.
 
Assuming you mean me, @DaveW is an idiot, don't listen to him. :)

There is still no concrete answer on this, IMO. I think from a 30k foot view, the inside front tire brings at least a little grip to the party so I'd prefer ii is on the ground.

If the car is fast, I wouldn't break it trying to keep the tire on the ground, but if you are struggling for speed....

DaveW
 

PatientZero

@restless_performance
825
865
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Kansas City, Missouri
Assuming you mean me, @DaveW is an idiot, don't listen to him. :)

There is still no concrete answer on this, IMO. I think from a 30k foot view, the inside front tire brings at least a little grip to the party so I'd prefer ii is on the ground.

If the car is fast, I wouldn't break it trying to keep the tire on the ground, but if you are struggling for speed....

DaveW
Makes sense to me. The car is consistently fast and I assume I will find some more speed with 315's. I wouldn't even have known without seeing the picture. I don't think I'm going to worry about it.
 
Assuming you mean me, @DaveW is an idiot, don't listen to him. :)

There is still no concrete answer on this, IMO. I think from a 30k foot view, the inside front tire brings at least a little grip to the party so I'd prefer ii is on the ground.

If the car is fast, I wouldn't break it trying to keep the tire on the ground, but if you are struggling for speed....

DaveW
I agree, 0 grip from the inside front tire.. lol.

I think it's more of a chassis related thing.. Certain parameters stack up to needing a softer rear which gives you this problem. Not all rear wheel, drive solid axle cars do this.
 
323
318
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
So Cal
I agree, 0 grip from the inside front tire.. lol.

I think it's more of a chassis related thing.. Certain parameters stack up to needing a softer rear which gives you this problem. Not all rear wheel, drive solid axle cars do this.

To lift the inside front takes 3 things. High lateral acceleration, high longitudinal acceleration and a relatively high cg. Reduce any one of the 3, and the tire will go back on the ground.

Generally speaking, we'd like the first 2 to be as high as possible and the third as low. Phoenix clearly runs the rear of their cars chewing gum soft, which allows a lot of roll and squat, but it also comes out of the hole like Jack the Bear. Does that car understeer? You bet your ass it does! But if you've got the skill to keep the front loaded as long as possible so it turns and the patience to not get on the throttle too early so to not induce a push, it's bloody quick. There's no one that has better rear tires at the end of a race than the Phoenix cars, so they literally drive away.

Their S550 doesn't lift the inside front. They seem to have gone a little different path with that chassis tuning.
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
5,237
4,227
Santiago, Chile
To lift the inside front takes 3 things. High lateral acceleration, high longitudinal acceleration and a relatively high cg. Reduce any one of the 3, and the tire will go back on the ground.

Generally speaking, we'd like the first 2 to be as high as possible and the third as low. Phoenix clearly runs the rear of their cars chewing gum soft, which allows a lot of roll and squat, but it also comes out of the hole like Jack the Bear. Does that car understeer? You bet your ass it does! But if you've got the skill to keep the front loaded as long as possible so it turns and the patience to not get on the throttle too early so to not induce a push, it's bloody quick. There's no one that has better rear tires at the end of a race than the Phoenix cars, so they literally drive away.

Their S550 doesn't lift the inside front. They seem to have gone a little different path with that chassis tuning.
Nice way of describing the effect of a loose rear. Need to trail brake to the apex and hold on before putting down power.. or else its massive understeer.
 
206
171
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Columbia, TN
I think you should retitle this thread to "... good, bad, or RAD!" and I definitely go with the RAD!! If lap times are improving, tire wear is good, and the car is fun to drive, then what's to worry about, this thing is in BOSS MODE!

I doubt this translates, but back in Kart racing all the fastest guys were "driving on three tires", lifting the inside rear on entry and inside front on exit. This was easy to get to on a centrifugal clutch (KT100), but in Shifter it was a really tough to get there, but man once you did it was like a rocket ship. Took a ton of commitment on the entry, but you had to stab (KT100) roll into (Shifter) the throttle early at or before the apex to transition smoothly. Always surprised me at how early you needed to be on throttle. I watched the IKF champ at Willow Springs one time and he was back on throttle as he was turning in, so smooth, plus that kart had "tricks" the officials weren't catching. That guy was driving at a different level.
 
A small amount of lift just means you are sending all available inside weight to the inside rear (good for power down). As long as it does not bring understeer with it, its not hurting anything, and looks bad ass.
I agree 100%.Lifting LF tire means all the weight transfer is going to RR tire maximizing corner exit acceleration. As long as you don't have understeer on corner exit I would say your set up is right on.
 

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