looking for rotor/pad combo for track

[roketman]

I am on the same page as Gary when it comes to the rotors .Steel brake lines ,super blue fluid .Most importantly I have discovered what I consider to be the best brake pads I have used.Carbotech .They make a 20 compound for the fronts and a 16 compound for the rears.I use them in my GTR and my Ford Gt and must say they are spectacular .No fade ,last a long time ,no heat soaking,and the least amount of brake dust I have ever experienced on race pads.I use them on the street as well with no issues. If you call them tell them you are a track guy and I believe they will give you a 15% discount ! I have no affiliation with them .I just never been so impressed by brake pads! my 02

 

[PeteInCT]

Cloud9 and others - Thanks for the info on the Hawk pads. I wasn't 100% sure if the GT500 brakes were the same (being new to the Mustang thing - I'm an Audi/Porshe retread ;-)

On the Hawk pads, sorry to say guys I've not had good luck with them as opposed to Pagid or Carbotech. Of the bunch the Pagid's are the most expensive but I've found for my driving style (brake box 'killer' ;-) the Pagids have the earliest bite, most fade resistence and are relatively easy on the rotors. The R-19 compound was used to win the 24 hrs of LeMans by Audi on more than one occasion. Iwould assume Hawk and Carbotech can proclaim wins of their own also. The R-29's I use have even a little more temperature management (rated 50 degrees higher if I remember correctly) and have a little more early bite than the R-19's. They are supposedly a little more harsh on the rotors although I cannot see any difference in running 6 tracks days on my Audi TTS.

I'm good with the DBA recommendation on the rotors - I've wanted to use them for more than a season but they don't make a rotor that works with the TTS (only the TT). I've since installed a Stop-Tech BBK on the TTS with their 2 pc. rotors with lots of luck.

 

[adam81]

One thing to remember is the Boss is a heavy car. The Audi, both yours and the race car, are very light.

Roketman....I know you from NAGTROC. Good to see you have a LS. I do as well. I have run Carbotechs on the GTR as well and have had great results with them. I have a few pads on my short list that I want to run and Carbotechs are one of them.

I did VIR a few weeks ago and a few times had brake fade. The pedal was firm, but it was just not stopping... I boiled the fluid as well. I am running AP Racing 600, wanted to get 660 but there was a miscommunication... I just ordered Endless RF 650. One day I will get this braking figured out..

 

[PeteInCT]

Per Peter Sygieda at Northstar Motorsports, here's his repsonse to my Pagid pad inquiry for the '12 Boss 302:

Hawk DTC70 HB453U.585 (front pads) = Pagid pad style #2487 (available in multiple pad compounds)
Hawk DTC60 HB485G.656 (rear pads) = Pagid does not make that. People are using Pagid front pads in combination with Hawk rear for example in Grand Am GS class.

 

[ChuckP]

Like cloud9 I like Hawk pads. I think the DTC70/DTC60 setup is ideal but I've been running HT14/HT10 for the last couple of events and they seem to work fine. I have DTC70s and DTC60s to try when the HTs are gone. As for rotors I get them (and my Hawk pads) from Weston Motorsports. I like their spiral slotted rotors that are cryo treated. Also been using them for many years on my Porsche race car with good results.
http://www.westonmotorsports.com/

 

[Exigent]

Just for clarification - is it necessary to change rotors for track use or will proper pad selection yield reliable braking with stock rotors?

 

[cloud9]

Just for clarification - is it necessary to change rotors for track use or will proper pad selection yield reliable braking with stock rotors?

It's not so much the quality of the rotors that's an issue. I use 2-piece DBA 5000 fronts because they drop 8 lbs of unsprung rotating mass off each wheel. The stock rotors are fine for track use, but the issue is pad cross-contamination. If you use two different pad materials on the same rotor they become contaminated and degrade the braking performance both for street and track. I had this issue on my GT500 when I just swapped pads between events. My street braking was significantly diminished to the point of being unsafe. I now use dedicated rotors for each my street and track pads. You can have the rotors turned to alleviate the contamination, but as soon as you go back to switching between materials the issue will resurface. Some people will "scrub" their track pad material off after track events using a process similar to bed-in, but I don't do that.

I use the rotor seasoning and pad bed-in procedures as listed here:

http://www.oregonviperclub.org/bedding_rotors.htm

If you want to swap between track and street pads using the same rotors, here's a video showing their process:

http://www.essexparts.com/learning-center/swapping_pads

 

[roketman]

One thing to remember is the Boss is a heavy car. The Audi, both yours and the race car, are very light.

Roketman....I know you from NAGTROC. Good to see you have a LS. I do as well. I have run Carbotechs on the GTR as well and have had great results with them. I have a few pads on my short list that I want to run and Carbotechs are one of them.

I did VIR a few weeks ago and a few times had brake fade. The pedal was firm, but it was just not stopping... I boiled the fluid as well. I am running AP Racing 600, wanted to get 660 but there was a miscommunication... I just ordered Endless RF 650. One day I will get this braking figured out..

I too was frustrated over the brakes .I feel I have it figured out now.I had the same issue with the GTR and my Ford GT.I have resolved them all now.
Adam you have impeccable taste in cars !
You have found the best Boss forum! Least amount of crap!

 

[PeteInCT]

Roketman - Tnx for the private message on the brakes. This 'debate' may be like comparing fine wines or stunning women - there is no RIGHT answer....

To continue here: Have you used R-19 or R-29 compounds specifically, and if so how woild you rate then vs. the Carbotech XP-20's for:

a) Early bite stopping power
b) Overall stopping power
c) Fade resistence
d) Rotor wear management

Here's been my experience with my retired ride - Audi TTS, 340 hp/352 ft-lbs, Stop-Tech 4 piston fronts:
a) R-29's were much better
b) I'd say about the same
c) R-19's and R-29's were better. I've never been able to get the Pagids to fade on me. Maybe I'm driving too slow ! ;D
d) The R-19's were EXCELLENT on the rotors. I did not run the R-29's long enoug before I sold the TTS for the Boss 302 LS.

The TTS was my little 'Porche Killer' - I had about $15K into that car and it hung with anything below a GT3. The new toy appears to have much higher aspirations - I only have had it out for one track day so far at LimeRock in CT. I still have a lot of time needed to really settle into the Boss, the differences between it and the TTS (paddle shift auto, Quattro with tons of understeer, fully independent rear, 3100 lbs, etc) are about as far as they can be. And as you guys already know, it's quite amazing what Ford has accomplished, especially for the price.

Thanks in advance for your input here.

-Pete

 

[1-1-12]

Can the Hawk DTC-70/DTC-60 combo be driven to and from the track safely?

Where are you guys buying DBA rotors and Hawk pads?

 

[cloud9]

Can the Hawk DTC-70/DTC-60 combo be driven to and from the track safely?

Where are you guys buying DBA rotors and Hawk pads?

There are differing opinions on this, but I've driven them to and from the track in the past when I didn't have a trailer a few years ago. Mainly it's a noise issue. They typically squeal pretty bad as you come to a stop when cold during street driving. The counter argument is they don't stop as well in a panic stop when cold. In the limited amount of street use I've had with them, I haven't noticed this. The other potential issue is wear. Due to the aggressive nature of these pads you will wear them and the rotors faster than street pads. I'm going to try and leave them on this year for street driving as I'm swapping them weekly or biweekly doing so many track days and it's a 2 hour process to do a full rotor/pad swap on jack stands. Last year I did drive them on the street a few times and didn't notice the squealing was much worse than the stock pads. On my GT500 it seemed they squealed more for some reason, maybe the extra weight. I'm pretty sure OLOABOSS said he drives them on the street all over the country going from track to track for the OLOA.

 

[1-1-12]

Thanks for the info. Where are you buying your brakes?

 

[PeteInCT]

The pads you choose will make a difference in how they react in the street as well as on the track. Few pads do both well. I won't go into my rant about Pagid pads again here in the forum ;D, but that's what I use up front.

 

[cloud9]

Thanks for the info. Where are you buying your brakes?

Wherever they're cheapest usually. Topbrakes.com, TireRack, bestbrakes.com JBG turned me onto Ultrarev.com recently and they seem to have the best prices I've seen. Ask for Vincent.

 

[PeteInCT]

The best pads are not inexpensive and their prices vary little from distributor to distributor. Like tires, pads are not something that you really want to go the 'discount' route unless you wish to track your car very infrequently and not push it very hard when you do. Bottom line is that this hobby is a black hole for your wallet, period. My wife will attest to it ;D

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Have to agree with Roktman --- have used Hawks, Brakeman's , and others and have found nothing I like better than the Carbotechs. They seem to be fairly friendly to the rotors also. Have not used Pagids, but then their price is alot steeper on a Viper ACR, and we have had horrid luck with Mintex.

Stagger with 12s on the front and 8s on the back, and have to think that would be a good combo on the Boss, but defer to Roktman and what he has found that works the best?

 

[PeteInCT]

Bill - Rocketman may have brainwashed you with the Carbotech's! Try a set of Pagid R-29's!! ;D

(Disclaimer since your new to the Forum: Ron and I have gone back and forth playfully with the Pagid/Carbotech debate over the winter. Overall we agree on one thing - we don't use Hawks, for me they they just don't like rotors very much and I'm not that hard on the brakes. I have R-29's up front now which I am very happy with, and a set of Hawk DTC-60's in the rear that are currently chewing up my rear rotors. My rear rotors actually have more wear than the fronts. Since Pagid still does not make rear pads for the Boss I will actually be switching to Carbo XP-10's soon in the rear. When I do that I'll swap out the rotors for 2 pc. DBA's.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Yeah I've not been pleased with how long the Hawk DTC 60s or 70s have lasted.

Very happy with the performance of the PF01/PF97 combo so far--only one event, so no real longevity data yet.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Very happy with the performance of the PF01/PF97 combo so far--only one event, so no real longevity data yet.

That's the combo they were running on the BTA cars at MMP.

 

[fuhrius]

ArizonaGT, are you running the PFC's on the street too?