Lower Control Arms and Relocation Brackets and Springs

[GTMikey]

Hey there,

I have been researching this the last few days. I am at the point with the car where over a 5 mile track my 5 best lap times are within .25 seconds fo each other. I feel like my current setup is maxed. NT01's are ordered which are an upgrade from the Hankook RS3's.

The car has camber plates, new motor, CJ intake, SCJ throttle body and a custom tune. Power is no problem as I am pulling 132 down the straight at Thunderhill. I have read various users posts on various types of suspension upgrades.

I have talked to Cortex, great guys. I see the Ford Racing parts that are available and These parts below you can get for American Muscle. I was told today the single biggest improvement you can do is a Wattslink. Cortex has a nice setup. I would love to hear from anyone but especially the guys who track the cars alot and are digging to take seconds off their lap times which is where I am at.

http://www.americanmuscle.com/sr-adj-lca-0514.html

http://www.americanmuscle.com/frpp-lca-relocation-bracket-0512.html

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

First: I would avoid any of the "SR Performance" line offered by American Muscle. That is their in-house line where they have China copy existing parts and sell you cheaper versions. I wouldn't trust that stuff on track.
I run these and have had no issues: http://www.americanmuscle.com/frpp-boss302r-lca-0514.html?utm_content=Handling+-+Control+Arms%7CFord+Racing&utm_campaign=05%2B%20Years&utm_source=Google-pla&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_term=&AMID=frpp-boss302r-lca-0514-GSBasicFitmentV1&year=2012

LCA Relocation brackets aren't going to do much for you unless you are lowered, and even then they are best for simply correcting back to the stock rear suspension geometry. (If you are lowered then I would definitely get them).

Watts Link makes a nice improvement in corner exit traction but it's more of a "find a tenth or two" mod vs. "a few seconds". I have the Fays2 unit and it works well. I have no experience with the Cortex unit but I'm sure it works well also, all their stuff seems very nice and has backing of some serious Mustang racers.

Going to the NT01s alone will probably find you two seconds on T-Hill 5 mile.

Best bang for the buck in this order, IMO:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Driver
[*]Tires
[*]Brakes
[*]Suspension
[*]Aero
[/list]

Once you get comfortable with the NT01s and/or feel like switching to an even lower treadwear tire, I suggest getting the FRPP ABS control module and some serious race pads.

If you are truly maxed out on the car at your current skill level then the next biggest improvement after that stuff is going to be an entire suspension kit.
Cortex and Vorshlag both have very nice setups for the S197. I have an MCS suspension package from Vorshlag. These will make a sizeable dent in your times if you are a capable driver, but they'll also make a sizeable dent in your wallet.

I hope to get back out to T-Hill with my Mustang at some point. So far we have only been there for LeMons but it's a killer track.

 

[Tri-bar]

I know I get over shadowed by the Coil-over crowed here. I found you can have a fast corning car and keep it simple. When it's time to do your suspension keep this set up in mind. It really dose work, is less money, First off the rear. Control arms: FFR Boss 302r like you found, great arm for the price, it's set and forget. FFR anti-squat brackets. Middle hole. FFR panhard bar or J&M FFR style bar. 18mm rear sway bar. Steeda rear diff bearing. I run the stock upper control arm. The front is just as simple, Prothan control arm bushings, Steeda X-11 ball joints, No issues with that for over a year, will swap to the Howe ball joint when the time comes, money well spent. FR500s tie rods. Eibach front sway bar, but Maximum Motorsports bar is well made also. Adjustable end links for the sway bar, your choice of brand. Now here where I differ from others here and on other sites. Maximum Motorsport Road and track springs and Koni yellow sport struts and shock. Billstiens are great too if you really do want a set and forget set up.
This set up has great street manners will take most bumps with ease but it is low and will bounce off the rear bumpstops on a hard hit the same as other setups. You can drive for hours without it beating you up.

On the track I can point the front end anywhere I want more or less, is very forgiving and controls the motion of the car very well. It's just plain easy to drive. I don't have a mid corner push, turn in is easy with little sign of a push, it just turns. Corner exit is where the fun is, Just floor it! But the time I'm mid corner I am already of the gas,by Exit it's floored. No drama. It's just goes. Now I'm not saying you can't spend a lot of money. You just don't need to to go fast and to have fun. This is a track day set up. If you want to build a true race car, Go the Full blown coil-over/ watts link route. I do have more to say but I'm out of time and have to run to work. Good luck.
I'm mid corn

 

[Roadhouse]

You mention a Watts Link as being the "single biggest improvement" but I would disagree with whoever said this to you. I know plenty of people of that run them and love them but there are also those who have them and didn't really notice much of a difference. Hard to tell what really works and what may be "new parts placebo" effect. I would agree with ArizonaBOSS and say that it might give you a few tenths in a properly set up car but it won't be a massive change. I don't have one on my car, but I have driven a very similarly prepped car as mine with a WL and I couldn't really tell much of a difference. Some of this could be related to driving style, too. Just wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.


Lots of good info in here from the previous posters.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

I think I jumped over the "middle ground" that Tri-Bar is pointing to and went straight to a high-end coilover recommendation. That might have been overkill.

I've had good luck in the past with FRPP/Eibach Swaybars and the FRPP handling kit on my 2006 GT. I know a few users here have the FRPP adjustable damper handling pack and like that quite a bit. I think some of those people have graduated to other stuff, though.

What's your biggest issue with your current setup that you are trying to solve, and what is your budget?

It's always easier spending someone else's money for them

 

[Grant 302]

Best bang for the buck in this order, IMO:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Driver
[*]Tires
[*]Brakes
[*]Suspension
[*]Aero
[/list]

I totally agree with this in principle, but I gotta say that considering bang for the buck I would put Tires before the Driver. Mainly because my $500/set of Pirelli DH scrubs could probably drop seconds off of *any* street tire car given the same driver. And improving the driver is *not* cheap when looking at a season's worth of seat time, casual instruction, or professional race schools. All of which I need more of, but way more money than a set of scrubs!

Hard to tell what really works and what may be "new parts placebo" effect.


Lots of good info in here from the previous posters.

Agreed and agreed. Just don't sell short how good your setup is. 'Inspiring' is the word I think I've used in the past.

I know I get over shadowed by the Coil-over crowed here. I found you can have a fast corning car and keep it simple.

The overshadowing is in your head! There are lots of guys *without* coilovers that turn fast times and have cars that handle well.

But back to the OP...With the NT-01s I think you'll be well on your way to shaving time off. Consider slicks or takeoffs for your next upgrade.

I disagree with what you heard about the watts link. I've never heard they are worth a lot of time. I'm sure they do increase driver confidence, because the panhard does do some weird things in transitional grip situations and for variation in left/right turn performance. Doesn't bother me at all on street tires and tires in general that 'communicate'. I might prefer the watts with slicks since they don't.

What sizes were you running for the RS3s and what are you getting for the NT-01s?

 

[Grant 302]

I think I jumped over the "middle ground" that Tri-Bar is pointing to and went straight to a high-end coilover recommendation. That might have been overkill.

I've had good luck in the past with FRPP/Eibach Swaybars and the FRPP handling kit on my 2006 GT. I know a few users here have the FRPP adjustable damper handling pack and like that quite a bit. I think some of those people have graduated to other stuff, though.

What's your biggest issue with your current setup that you are trying to solve, and what is your budget?

It's always easier spending someone else's money for them

We do that here and we do it well!! 8)

But seriously, I think of it more as choosing a tire for the level of grip you want or can afford and then building a suspension to work around them.

We've seen lots of guys here running quick times with slicks and various levels of suspension work.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

I totally agree with this in principle, but I gotta say that considering bang for the buck I would put Tires before the Driver. Mainly because my $500/set of Pirelli DH scrubs could probably drop seconds off of *any* street tire car given the same driver. And improving the driver is *not* cheap when looking at a season's worth of seat time, casual instruction, or professional race schools. All of which I need more of, but way more money than a set of scrubs!

I say Driver before Tires because if you just slap them on and don't know what to do with them (or what pressures to run) you run the risk of ruining them in a day or two and not getting your money's worth--but yes they will be the easiest way to drop time, no doubt.

 

[Grant 302]

I say Driver before Tires because if you just slap them on and don't know what to do with them (or what pressures to run) you run the risk of ruining them in a day or two and not getting your money's worth--but yes they will be the easiest way to drop time, no doubt.

All true, but the BMO membership is better and smarter than most. We even have threads on setting pressures for slicks and even more advanced ones for how to set them cold at whatever temp! 8)

 

[VoodooBoss]

I have talked to Cortex, great guys. ...I was told today the single biggest improvement you can do is a Wattslink. Cortex has a nice setup.

I think some are taking this comment out of context. I think Mike is hearing this from more than one source but he can confirm that.

Watts Link makes a nice improvement in corner exit traction but it's more of a "find a tenth or two" mod vs. "a few seconds". I have the Fays2 unit and it works well. I have no experience with the Cortex unit but I'm sure it works well also, all their stuff seems very nice and has backing of some serious Mustang racers.

This is what CorteX states. The context of this is if you're going to make one improvement TO THE SUSPENSION only this is where CorteX recommends starting. Not coilovers. They state that this will improve rear wheel corner exit traction and make the car feel more predictable in transitions and when hitting large bumps like track curbing. These are the improvements I feel in my car. Does it immediately make the car faster? No but it will improve your confidence which should make you faster after you've learned the new limits.

I was on the fence on the watts link hearing mixed reactions on it's improvement. I'm local to CorteX and have seen their products on lots of race cars. Last August I was at the PWC/IRL race at Sonoma Raceway and had a chance to discuss the CorteX watts link with Dean Martin of Rehagan Racing who installed this product on his race car last season. After our conversation I decided it was worth a try and I have no regrets on my decision.

I also installed CorteX/JRi coilovers and where I notice an improvement, and what I was looking for, is in high speed corners like the turn 6-9 complex at Thunderhill. There are two 100 MPH corners there and while my FR 18000C dampers were an improvement over the stock dampers my car was still floating around and moving more than I liked. With my new suspension mods it's now totally buttoned down and much more controlled.

@CorteX Racing

I know Mike and have been on track with him a few times. He's a fast driver who pushes the limits and is looking for more control over the car. He owns the original Cooltech BOSS 302 LS and I believe it's still on stock suspension.

 

[F.D. Sako]

I second the wattslink comments above!
It's the only suspension modification I've done (apart from MM CC plates) and the difference it has made in the rear end is very noticeable. The rear end feels more planted and easily controllable with the throttle. I still haven't tested the wattslink at my home track, Summit Point, but the car felt great at VIR while going over the big curbs.

So, IMHO, you can't go wrong by purchasing the wattslink, specially if you plan on tracking the car in the near future.

 

[Tri-bar]

The overshadowing is in your head! There are lots of guys *without* coilovers that turn fast times and have cars that handle well.

Grant, it really may be in my head, so many things are lol, but as of late that's all I have been hearing. "You must have coil-overs to go fast." The truth is, all Mustangs built since 2005 have coilovers, at least on the front. That just simply means the spring is over the shock/strut. What we have come to know as "Coil-overs" is ride height adjustable shocks and struts with adjustable damping. while that is nice, that's not a coilover. front struts on a 76 Toyota Corolla is a coilover. I know it's silly and most of you know this, it's just gotten to be a peeve and I'm sorry.

Now with that out of the way, It's the price of said shocks and struts that can make a difference as well as other thing, warranty, how well they hold up when they build up heat/fade. Ease of adjustment, replacing them when you bust one up. I have played with Ohlins, Penske, Koni race shocks, old and new, Koni reds' on my 65 back in the day. 2 and 3 way adjustable. Now I just like to drive the car, I have tried the Cortex Watts link and then pulled it off to test the panhard bar back to back. Was not a big change but that's just me. In my older age, I just like to keep it simple, I like ArizonaBOSS's term "middle ground" that's what it is. It' just happens to work. (For me)

Seat time then tires as I see it. New good sticky tires can hide bad habits, if you can learn to drive fast on crappy tires, just think how good you will be on the good ones. I set up a car to run well on street tires, when I put on race tires it's just that much better.
I pulled off my Roush/KW coilovers (I know, not the best, that's what was around at the time when I started building my car) to the Koni/MM springs and never looked back. The springs match well with the roll centers of the front and rear. The panhard bar is level at ride height. The rear springs drop within the instant center, again at ride height. Lower control arms are level with the rake of the chassis using the FFR anti-squat brackets. The upper control arm center line intersects with the center of gravity very nicely. AND! I can drive it one the street without it killing my back ! Ok, I will get off my soap box before others want to kill me..heheheh


EDIT: fixed quote marker

 

[VoodooBoss]

Nobody is saying "You must have coil-overs to go fast." It's just a natural progression for many of us as we go faster and learn more about vehicle dynamics. And semantics aside what were talking about is better quality dampers that are able to control the car at speed. Call them whatever you want. Many of us have followed a similar progression with tires.

I waited almost a year to get the CorteX/JRi single adjustable dampers because I didn't want the doubles. I wanted something simple because like you I like to set it and drive and so far that's exactly what has been working for me. The adjustable part is to soften up the damping for my drive to and from the track just like the stock Boss dampers.

 

[Grant 302]

Nobody is saying "You must have coil-overs to go fast." It's just a natural progression for many of us as we go faster and learn more about vehicle dynamics. And semantics aside what were talking about is better quality dampers that are able to control the car at speed. Call them whatever you want. Many of us have followed a similar progression with tires.

^That.

My Boss is stock, and my GT has gone though a number of slowly paced upgrades. Starting as a Brembo GT, it went stock for about a year, through P springs on LS struts/Boss shocks for over a year, and was going to go to Konis & H&R next, before I skipped that and went to the CorteX JRi setup. I have the Konis and H&R springs, but was mostly concerned about daily driving at that ride height. Adjustable ride height took care of that issue, so it was a simple choice when they went on sale last year.

I've also run though several different tires before working my way up to slicks. 2 sets of Pirellis, two sets of R-S3s, still using the PSS for the street or track/rain and then the Pirelli DH scrubs for track. So Tri-bar, I absolutely agree with you about running the 'middle ground' upgrades and having seat time on lesser tires. At least for a while.

Many here have done similar upgrade paths...and there's nothing wrong with any of them! 8)

 

[GTMikey]

Great comments and feedback guys, thank you. The NT01's have been ordered, I run 9.5 BBS wheels square so I went with the 275/35/18's. I have a friend with the SBY Laguna Seca and he went with the 10.5 BBS wheels in back, something I may move to.

Rick, yeah those corners 6-9 at Thunderhill and even #1 are corners I feel like I could run faster with just better tires. I think it's turn 9 where you float out to the Rumble Strip at 100 MPH, I hate lifting there but it feels like you will go into the pasture if you don't.

I think we are going to go with the LCA's and P-Springs and relocation brackets and see how it handles with the NT01's. Next track day is Sears Point/Sonoma with Rick and the Norcal Shelby Group in August.

 

[Grant 302]

^ Very interested to hear your thoughts on that setup once you have it together.

I ran a very similar setup when I was on P springs, LS struts, Boss shocks, MM CC plates, LCA brackets and 275/35-18 R-S3s, but with the GT 24mm bar. I suspect with the LS 26mm bar that your car will be a bit 'loose'.