M-5300-P springs for LS questions

[frosty]

P.S. Sorry for the one more but for clarification, I added these last parts for any others starting their research. The last comments aren't directed toward anybody in this forum. I should have specified but yesterday I was reading on another forum where somebody chastised a guy for asking questions about springs or something.

I'm not a member on the other forum and didn't join to get into a flame war with the guy. So I added my comments here to this thread.

Thanks everyone for all their input. When I get these springs on, hopefully that's it for me for a while.

 

[adam81]

Way to much to digest.........

But let me try and help out....

Yes, the stock boss is lower than the GT, but by mm..... So yes your drop will be VERY close to 1.5in. The springs you plan on getting will lower the car to the point that the rear LCAs are out of wack. You DO NOT have to change the LCAs. You get brackets that change the mounting point of them on your axle. I am not sure what the rule book says about this....

I am not sure who you talked to at FR, unfortunately they don't know what they are talking about. YES the P springs will work with your stock struts! Unless someone has first hand knowledge about them, you will not find the spring rates as FR does not publish them. I used to know what they were as someone VERY close to the program told me..... They are good for what you want to do. The P springs have been advertised for the Boss. 5 Dot 0 posted a flyer about all the parts FR has that will work on the Boss, and will work well. On top of that I talked to someone at FR who told me the P springs will work well on the stock dampers. Someone I trust and know.....

Springs are springs. The only thing about them that are designed for a specific application is how they fit mounted. Do you really think the H&R springs are designed SPECIFICALLY to work with the Boss stock struts? They are designed to work well with the S197 chassis in general and to lower the car. I guarantee you H&R did not put those springs on a stock Boss and take it to the track and/or auto-x many times over and do EXTENSIVE r&d to dial them in..... I am sure they did some research as to ride quality and general performance, but that's it..... I am not knocking the springs or H&R. They might be fine. I just would not get them! You talked to a "salesman" at H&R..... What do you think they are going to tell you? By the way they drop the car WAY to much for specific track performance. Lower is not always better....

The Boss lowering springs that FR are coming out with WILL be designed specifically for the Boss struts. Which Boss who knows??? To be very specific the Boss LS has slightly different dampening specifics than the regular Boss.... I am assuming, with education, that they will be fine for both Boss' as the difference in dampening specs is negligible...

No I am not confused or said the wrong thing about the rear sway bar. You will generally want it on the lowest setting, softest. You will want the front generally on the stiffest setting, maybe the middle..... Every driver is different so maybe this will change for you. And yes I understand that you are going from a stock spring setup of softer front and stiffer rear to the opposite of stiffer front and softer rear with the new springs. Still, with the Stano bars and the springs you will get, P , full soft rear and full stiff front maybe middle.

When I said go with the proven method I meant in upgrades...... Go with the proven formula. The stock Boss is VERY capable, and that is a proven formula as well. However once you change something major like springs, especially ones that lower the car as much as you are, your stock formula is completely out of wack. To get it right use the "new" proven formula of upgrades.... Straight?

What is inconsistent about you braking that you don't like that is making you change springs to address it? What does the car do? Why do you think it is inconsistent? What have you all done to your brakes? What rotors and pads are you running?

Please list all your mods so we can better help you.....

I know torsen is stock on a LS. I was saying if you have a torsen on a GT you can make a GT handle JUST as good as a Boss when using the EXACT parts.... It is the same car minus the motor! You can make a GT brake JUST as well as a Boss if the GT has the Brembo upgrade.... They are the SAME brakes....

Everything past the bullets of your first post in response to me is completely confusing..... Are you or are you not running 18s? If yes the change to 18s is by NO means a reasons to do all this other stuff..... Not sure where you got that at all..... If you are talking about front roll geometry you have bad info. The World Challenge and Grand AM guys have the EXACT same front lower control arms that we do..... And they run 18s. The front lower control arm design and ball joint is how you effect the front roll geometry.... On top of that it is the diameter of the tire not the wheel that matters. You can get 18in tires that are very clsoe to stock tire height... What affects front roll geometry is lca/ball joint design and going to a different size tire height than stock. But again the race cars have different wheels, tire heights, and the same front lca and they are doing quite well wouldn't you say?

Do you have a LS? If not what you are using for your G readings? If so did you calibrate the stock gauge........???

I agree with you in your circumstance. Set the car up PROPERLY for your class and then learn to drive it. However you DO NOT know how to set your car up......

Have you checked out the Vorshlag blog about there s197 stang they are trying to compete nationally with? If not I HIGHLY suggest it. You will find they left ESP because they could NOT be competitive with the rules....

I am not offended by anything that you have written and I hope you are not offended by mine. When I read your stuff it just sounds like you know to much internet "facts and truths" and not enough REAL facts and truths..... I am just trying to help you....

 

[KK1826]

Way to much to digest.........

But let me try and help out....

The Boss lowering springs that FR are coming out with WILL be designed specifically for the Boss struts. Which Boss who knows??? To be very specific the Boss LS has slightly different dampening specifics than the regular Boss.... I am assuming, with education, that they will be fine for both Boss' as the difference in dampening specs in negligible...

Any idea when ????
I am about to do mine and was going to go with the 5300-P
Thanks

 

[frosty]

Not offended in the least. Funny I was thinking the same thing about you in some of your posts. I'm not heated or anything but when you tell me I have no clue, then you're telling Terry, Sam, and several members on here they don't know what they are doing. All of what I’m doing and posting are things I got from them. The only thing I’m not doing is using the GT 500 Struts and shocks like a lot of others. Personally, I’m going to go with coil overs before changing those. (If I do.) It’s funny, I think we somewhat agree. I find it difficult to believe that a car that will pull 1.03 g’s has that bad of struts & shocks. The main reason I’m not changing them. (Plus, Bill back me up here, I really only wanted new tires and got led down this path talking to others and getting more feedback. I’m not blaming anybody because I couldn’t be more happier. When I can go to an autox and get 4 overall fastest time with sponsored, awd cars in my 4th event, I’ll take that all day long.)

A lot of what I read and had conversations about springs and ride height I agree with so I’m trying. If it doesn’t work, hey I can change it back.

Changes/Recommended by
Sway bars, here, Sam.
Springs, Here(5300p), Terry and Sam (Sam only person that mentioned H&R).
Adjustable Swaybar, Sam, members here.
Camber Plates, all of the above
A6’s – All of the above

So when you say I don’t have a clue, you’re talking about a lot of people.

I never said the 5300P was a bad spring. I HAVE Not seen numbers and yes there was some confusion about whether they would work with the stock struts. You and 5DOT have cleared up they will but still no numbers. 5DOT gave told me who to contact but I’ve already got the H&R’s for now. It's ok to not allows follow the herd.

After this exchange I couldn’t be happier now that I went with the H & R springs.

I don’t mean this as condescending but please post some footage/results etc of yourself like the rest of us have so we can get a gauge of your experience. Maybe you are a national champion and if so I apologize up front but what you’ve posted so far you look sound like a bench racer. Quite frankly the only reason I’m responding is so anybody new doesn’t fall for what you’re saying.

Again, I’m not trying to provoke anything here but you’re call me stupid in not many words but you’re not backing up anything you say with your experience.

I'm just trying figure out what makes you such an expert to where you feel you can tell people they don't know what they are doing????? Are you a 7 time national champion in Mustang? If not I think I'm going to trust somebody that is over you. As you say I mean no offense but that's just common sense.

Or let us know how it goes when you go meet up with Cloud9 to educate him about tires. “Obi Wan” I'm dying to see how that turns out.

Seriously though, I appreciate the input but I've already purchased my stuff and I couldn't be more happier with the results so far.

I've said I went from one event getting beat by 5 seconds to winning the last two. Now I can't speak for the competition because I don't know any of the guys in ESP. But I gauge myself with other pony cars that run Pro. I’m not doing that badly with my experience.

Also, one of the friends I made is the National Champion in B-Stock. He's still twice the driver I am but in 2 races with my changes I've went from being 9 seconds slower than him on a tight 60 second course to 2.5 seconds behind him and his S2000. I'm no natural when it comes to driving so I have to attribute it to my "internet" knowledge and car changes. Honestly I think it's the A6's and probably the camber plates. The jury is still out on the sway bars and soon to be installed springs.

Maybe I don't have a clue what I'm doing but as long as I keep getting these kinds of gains being ignorant, I'll be happy.

Sorry, I didn’t cover that yes I have an LS. The LS comes with a Lateral/Forward G gauge in it. Yes following the manual it’s calibrated. Did Ford put a POS gauge in, I can’t answer that. I can tell you I wasn’t in the high 9’s the events I did without the changes. So even if it’s not 100% accurate, I think on its scale its feasible to use a tool to gauge progress.

 

[adam81]

Obviously you have been quite offended..... : I was just trying to help you out. Not sure where you got so butt hurt... I read back through my posts and I don't see anything offensive there... You may want to re-read them too...

For know other reason I know what I am talking about because this is information right from the mouths of some of the people you have talked to but more importantly people at Ford, who I know quite well, that are intimately involved in the Boss, as well as from drivers and owners of winning teams in the Boss....some champions. And I am talking WC and Grand Am. I don't need to come on here spouting any achievement, let alone the 4 autoxs and 1 track day I have done..... Look up some of my posts and keep telling me I don't know what I am talking about....

I am not, and have not called anyone clueless or stupid, to include yourself..... I haven't said the people you talked to don't know what they are doing. I am saying with all the info you received you didn't put it together right....

A lot of us have been upgrading this car way before you started too. We have done a ton of homework and have the answers. Just because I don't post on here everyday doesn't mean anything..... FYI I have basically the same suspension setup as Cloud9, Rocketman, and MANY others. I got mine at the same time when we were experimenting and getting all the facts. I worked with cloud9 quite extensively, over the phone and through emails, and we came up together with the current "upgrade plan". Most people go this route because we proved it to be so good. I don't post about it....

You don't have a clue because you are running your rear sway on full stiff.... You don't have a clue because you are drastically lowering your car without changing the mounting points for the lower control arms.... You don't have a clue based on a lot of what you said.... You don't have a clue because cloud9 is a personal friend of mine and the padawan/obi wan thing was a joke...

Good luck to you man.... I am glad you are sssoooo happy with the springs you haven't even installed on your car... : I'm done trying to help....

 

[VoodooBoss]

I think we've highlighted the attributes of the P springs enough so I'll close this thread.