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Margaret is faster than 2015 Mustang around MIS

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Well not quite apples to apples but I'm glad to see the 2014 was very close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uw139j_n1xQ
 
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I guess we should be happy the new Mustang performs about as well as the old one, considering it is heavier.

I'm still waiting for the secret to be revealed that the V6 is one tune away from being faster than the Ecoboost. Of course, they won't sell you a V6 with the Performance pack as they would in 2013-14.

A GT with performance pack and Recaros runs $37K.

A 1LE Camaro with Recaros is $40K.

The Camaro has some very interesting options. The 1LE package is $3500, but it looks like you can buy the 1LE suspension separately as a dealer installed option for $1500, then add the short throw shifter and strut tower brace. Why would you do that? Well, I guess so that you can drop another $4300 on the ZL1 six piston Brembo brakes, which are also an option, but you can't order them with a "1LE" Camaro. Go figure.

I never thought I would say this, but rather than spend $37K on a 2015 Mustang GT, I'd be tempted to spend $39K (probably less because Dodge always has rebates) on a 2015 Challenger Scat Pack with 485HP, Brembos all around, and a lot of attitude. Not a track car, of course, but a lot of fun on the street, I'm sure.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
It's funny how much hate you have for the '15s.

This is a total win for the '15. Without the P-Zeros, and Brembos, I'm surprised it could be this close.

I'm actually a fan of the old V6s...but I think the ecoboost will trounce it in every way. Livernois has already got a tune only ecoboost to 12.6 in the 1/4 and 12.19 with tune and tires. At this point, who gives two turds about the V6.
 
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Grant 302 said:
It's funny how much hate you have for the '15s.

This is a total win for the '15. Without the P-Zeros, and Brembos, I'm surprised it could be this close.

I'm actually a fan of the old V6s...but I think the ecoboost will trounce it in every way. Livernois has already got a tune only ecoboost to 12.6 in the 1/4 and 12.19 with tune and tires. At this point, who gives two turds about the V6.

The 2015 Mustang is a huge letdown. It should trounce the 2012-14 Mustang in all categories, but it just holds its own. It is too heavy, too expensive, and too boring looking. There is zero buzz around the car. The 2015 at the Denver Auto Show last spring was completely ignored in favor of the two 2014s they also had on display.

As for the Ecosnooze, it has one purpose: CAFE numbers. Real world mileage with real world drivers will show that if you actually drive the thing, it will suck more gas than the V6. The weight difference is only 60 pounds. Ford had to detune the V6 to keep it from outshining the EcoSnooze, and clearly a tune will wake it up. I've had three, four-cylinder turbo engines over the last 25 years. Tracking an Ecoboost lugging over 4000 pounds (with driver) is a sure recipe for disaster. Sure, you can crank the boost and get a great 1/4 mile number, but how many times can you run an Ecosnooze in the 12's before you blow something? DSM's lay down incredible 1/4 miles, about 10 times, then they disintegrate.

Here is American Muscle proving that a stock 2014 V6 is faster than a stock 2015 Ecosnooze. That is just sad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5X9sUIbwoQ

The 2016 Camaro is looming, and Ford had better get it in gear, or they are going to get killed.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
coboss said:
The 2015 Mustang is a huge letdown. It should trounce the 2012-14 Mustang in all categories, but it just holds its own. It is too heavy, too expensive, and too boring looking. There is zero buzz around the car. The 2015 at the Denver Auto Show last spring was completely ignored in favor of the two 2014s they also had on display.

As for the Ecosnooze, it has one purpose: CAFE numbers. Real world mileage with real world drivers will show that if you actually drive the thing, it will suck more gas than the V6. The weight difference is only 60 pounds. Ford had to detune the V6 to keep it from outshining the EcoSnooze, and clearly a tune will wake it up. I've had three, four-cylinder turbo engines over the last 25 years. Tracking an Ecoboost lugging over 4000 pounds (with driver) is a sure recipe for disaster. Sure, you can crank the boost and get a great 1/4 mile number, but how many times can you run an Ecosnooze in the 12's before you blow something? DSM's lay down incredible 1/4 miles, about 10 times, then they disintegrate.

Here is American Muscle proving that a stock 2014 V6 is faster than a stock 2015 Ecosnooze. That is just sad.

h t t p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5X9sUIbwoQ

The 2016 Camaro is looming, and Ford had better get it in gear, or they are going to get killed.

Sounds like internet hyperbole to me...
 
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Grant 302 said:
Sounds like internet hyperbole to me...

I don't know how a video posted by a Mustang tuning company can be labeled "internet hyperbole". Challenge my facts. It is a fact that the 2014 V6 is faster than the 2015 Ecosnooze. It is a fact that Ford suddenly gave the 2015 V6 a lower horsepower rating and lower gas mileage rating than 2014, despite there being *no* mechanical changes to the engine. There is only one explanation - Ford purposely retuned the engine to lower the numbers to try to make the Ecosnooze look better. It is also a fact that Ford is not selling the performance pack with the V6, another attempt to get people to buy the Ecosnooze instead. Why? CAFE numbers and higher profit margins. Not because the engine is a better fit for the customer, but because they will make more money and meet the CAFE numbers more easily. Here is a clue to the Ford engineers: if you had actually cut the 200 lbs out of the car that you claimed you would at the beginning of the project, your CAFE numbers would have been better across the board, as would 0-60 times, as would handling numbers. Instead, incredibly, the 2015 is *heavier* than the previous generation.

I'll say it again: 2016 Camaro is going to be based on the Cadillac ATS coupe platform, which some car magazines say out handles a BMW M3. An ATS coupe weighs 3411 pounds. Add in 150 lb for the Corvette LT1 V8 that is expected to be in the SS, and you have a 3561 pound car with with 460HP. The Mustang GT is dead meat at that point. The Camaro is headed for the weight number the Mustang was supposed to have.
 
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Grant 302 said:
??? The FACT is that the ecoboost car went faster that night. 14.3 to the 14.4 of the V6.

DID YOU EVEN WATCH THE VIDEO? ::)

Umm, yeah. I watched the 2014 V6 showing its taillights to the 2015 Ecoboost. Did you see how the V6 pulled the Ecosnooze at the end? That doesn't lie. They probably ran the Ecosnooze a dozen times more to try to get a better ET, but that video shows clearly that the V6 has more HP. The Ecosnooze had a car length on the V6 off the line in the video, and then the V6 walked out to a two car length win. And that was in cool temperatures! I guarantee in 100F, the 'snooze is whipped by a huge margin.
 
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Grant 302 said:
What's with the ninja edit? ::) So you finally realize if you compare the best passes, that the EcoBoost was quicker that night?

What "ninja edit"?

Show that video to anyone who knows anything about drag racing and ask them which car *they* would rather pilot in a 1/4 mile. Hint: it isn't the car in the right hand lane.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
coboss said:
What "ninja edit"?
::) The part you added after the first two sentences. Particularly, the dozen passes speculation.

Show that video to anyone who knows anything about drag racing and ask them which car *they* would rather pilot in a 1/4 mile. Hint: it isn't the car in the right hand lane.

You're finally right about something. I'd take the Black EcoBoost MANUAL in the left lane. :D
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
8,730
2,734
Arizona, USA
Livernois has demonstrated up to 330/425 rwhp/torque on the Ecoboost with just a tune, no hardware changes. Those numbers should come down a little as they make that into a "safe" tune, but the Ecoboost will make for a solid DD with that kind of performance only a tune away.

Once aftermarket intakes and downpipes etc start hitting the market, the numbers will get even higher. Don't even think you'll be able to touch that with the V6, especially when most of them will be making their way to rental fleets.

That being said, you can exceed that performance by purchasing a 2011+ Coyote car, for a lot less money--but you won't match the interior fit, finish, or comfort (not to mention the IRS ride benefits) of the new car.

I think the Ecoboost will make a great DD; enough power to be faster than 95% of cars on the road and comfort and mileage to boot.
It's not the performance pinnacle by any means, but it's not intended to be.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
^Dang. So much want right there!

cosm3os said:
Am I the only one who is sad we are talking about the 4 and the 6? This is a friggin 302 forum!

My current car plans are considering adding either.

Add EcoBoost and make GT dedicated track car.
or
Add '12 V6 and make it the dedicated track car.
or
Trade the Boss for a GT350 and keep the GT as DD/track car.

NFSBOSS said:
You guys have made your point so why don't we move on.
Understood, sir! 8)
 
That GT350 sure sounds tempting. I guess the question is...How Bad Do You Want It. Is it worth the cost of leaving the Boss at the dealership. Thank god my income at this time says.......NO! :eek:
 

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