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MGW Short Throw-Interesting Comment by instructor

My co-owner of the track beast took an instructor with him in Las Vegas on Thursday. The instructor is a veteran racer, driver, track designer. He saw the MGW and said the shift was quicker than the clutch could engage and it would throw off your timing... Any truth to this? Is this for the super duper advanced guys? This guy is super technical, great driver. Just curious if this matters to us mere mortals.

Anyone?
 

Senderofan

Having more fun than should be allowed..in my Boss
I've not heard a comment like that. I've had 4-5 instructors /professional drivers do laps with my Boss. While I'm sure they all felt the tranny / clutch could be better....they were more focused on how well the vehicle handled for being a heavy weight.

Wayne
 

pufferfish

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sure, that possibility exists...its a simple matter of time over distance. if you change the stroke of either the pedal or the shifter, you need to change the time you take to perform that action so they remain synchronized. the issue with that theory is the clutch is not an on-off switch, like the shifter. there is actually a much smaller window in the pedal's stroke that does the majority of the engaging and disengaging. because of this, the clutch is always a faster action than the shifter (unless you have a lazy foot or mis-time it).

were you grinding some gears or missing gates at this event?
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
GTMikey said:
My co-owner of the track beast took an instructor with him in Las Vegas on Thursday. The instructor is a veteran racer, driver, track designer. He saw the MGW and said the shift was quicker than the clutch could engage and it would throw off your timing... Any truth to this? Is this for the super duper advanced guys? This guy is super technical, great driver. Just curious if this matters to us mere mortals.

Anyone?

Imo, does it matter? no. If that was the case then one needs to just shift smoother ( a little slower). I have always viewed short shift kits as a way to firm things up. Get rid of that vague factory shifter so you are not missing gears and such, not so much for faster shifts but for precise direct shifts. In fact when I ride with a race school instructor I'm always impressed how we are going so fast and all his inputs are so slow (smooth).
 
Is there any way to make a clutch stop for these cars? On all my BMWs, there was always a stock stop that you could replace with something adjustable so you don't have the dead area of clutch pedal travel.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Any change can throw off your timing. At Track Attack, I had some issues on day 2 with the FR500S with the different shifter and engagement point on the clutch which was way higher up. I would be on the gas way before engaging the clutch. Going between my Boss and the '11 GT don't give me any real problems, and the Boss is stock while the GT has the clutch spring removed, whiteline trans bushing, and a clutch pedal extender.

This guy probably just needed more seat time with the shifter.

cosm3os said:
Is there any way to make a clutch stop for these cars? On all my BMWs, there was always a stock stop that you could replace with something adjustable so you don't have the dead area of clutch pedal travel.

Sounds like a great idea. Would probably be more helpful than the Bondra pedal extender.
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
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GTMikey said:
My co-owner of the track beast took an instructor with him in Las Vegas on Thursday. The instructor is a veteran racer, driver, track designer. He saw the MGW and said the shift was quicker than the clutch could engage and it would throw off your timing... Any truth to this? Is this for the super duper advanced guys? This guy is super technical, great driver. Just curious if this matters to us mere mortals.

Anyone?

Answer: No.

Longer Answer: Is he implying that the driver cannot adjust to different timing ? The point of the MGW isn't to shift faster, it's to be able to shift at all.


-Pete
 
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GTMikey said:
My co-owner of the track beast took an instructor with him in Las Vegas on Thursday. The instructor is a veteran racer, driver, track designer. He saw the MGW and said the shift was quicker than the clutch could engage and it would throw off your timing... Any truth to this? Is this for the super duper advanced guys? This guy is super technical, great driver. Just curious if this matters to us mere mortals.

Anyone?

Not sure, but I think there could be some credibility to his logic.
I do know that when shifting very fast in tight situations (I have a Barton) that sometimes the gears would grind on the stock clutch.
I now have an Exedy race clutch & have not noticed the same situation as described.
In any event, the stock clutch is weak, & is a tranny killer which should be replaced by a real clutch.
 
I wouldn't give his comments any value except he designed Spring Mtn raceway, raced can am cars for a living, and builds race cars.
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
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lbp said:
Not sure, but I think there could be some credibility to his logic.
I do know that when shifting very fast in tight situations (I have a Barton) that sometimes the gears would grind on the stock clutch.
I now have an Exedy race clutch & have not noticed the same situation as described.
In any event, the stock clutch is weak, & is a tranny killer which should be replaced by a real clutch.

Lee - fully agree, the stock clutch does not engage or disengage as fast as a good clutch can. I was responding to the comment specifically, where it was stated that the MGW can throw off the DRIVERS timing. Just because the MGW can shift faster, in my mind, doesn't mean that the driver is now forced to try to shift at the limit of the shifter. The clutch and Synchro's are still talking to us, and you can feel when they are not happy campers. Hence, stay smooth and use the same technique and it wont "throw off" your timing.

But what do I know - I never built a racetrack, built an all out race car or won any sanctioned race in my life ::)
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
GTMikey said:
I wouldn't give his comments any value except he designed Spring Mtn raceway, raced can am cars for a living, and builds race cars.


Hey I'm sure he is super great no disrespect intended . Instructors say all kinds of things while on track and off , just something he noticed. Had not thought about the MGW with the stock clutch. But now that I do he is totally correct.
Putting a shift kit on the stock Boss transmission is just making things worse.
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
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Domestic Product said:
Hey I'm sure he is super great no disrespect intended . Instructors say all kinds of things while on track and off , just something he noticed. Had not thought about the MGW with the stock clutch. But now that I do he is totally correct.
Putting a shift kit on the stock Boss transmission is just making things worse.

How is it making things worse when for many of us including myself found that without a shift kit like the Barton or MGW our cars were undrivable on a road course? A faster shift may not be optimum for our clutch but overall it made things much better for many of us.
 
Mike, was the instructors comment made in regards to the driver missing shifts?
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
+1

Who was driving when he said this? Not sure if I understand the context in which the comment was made. It seems to make more sense if he was not talking about *his* shifting/driving.
 

steveespo

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I always like to let the clutch out when I feel the shifter go positively into the next gear position. So if my right hand says we're good my left foot releases the clutch. Now if I have a slow long throw rubbery shifter that total time will be longer than if I use a quick, firm, precise shifter.
I don't think there is much analysis here.
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
PeteInCT said:
How is it making things worse when for many of us including myself found that without a shift kit like the Barton or MGW our cars were undrivable on a road course? A faster shift may not be optimum for our clutch but overall it made things much better for many of us.

Just a figure of speech. Imo, putting a shift kit on a proven suspect clutch is not ideal. But if its working for you and others good.
 
steveespo said:
I always like to let the clutch out when I feel the shifter go positively into the next gear position. So if my right hand says we're good my left foot releases the clutch. Now if I have a slow long throw rubbery shifter that total time will be longer than if I use a quick, firm, precise shifter.
I don't think there is much analysis here.

I agree with this statement, timing is on the driver not the mechanical portion of the car. I have yet to drive a car of different make that shifts the same as the other. The car will never adapt to your driving style, it's always the other way around. Some shift shorter with a high clutch, some shift longer with a short release on the clutch. It's all up to you to make the adjustment. I've driven a lot of different manual transmissions and with the MGW as an aftermarket it's a close as your going to get perfect with the MT that we have.
 

302 Hi Pro

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Finally, sensible views. Maybe someone just had a slow left foot? Good shifting is all about timing and Driver skill.

We do what we can to mod the system, i.e. shifters, clutches, etc. But it's Driver skill in adapting to the equipment. The MGW is not to fast for the stock clutch, in fact the MGW is not fast at all, it just sits there until I make it move, and I make the timing of the shift, and clutch.

Driver timing makes it all work together, or not. If I miss a shift, it on me. The remote OEM shifter design is just a little weak for the power and torque twist the engine creates in WOT conditions.

Just my thoughts.
2HP
 

Justin

Save the dawn for your dishes!!!
Domestic Product said:
Just a figure of speech. Imo, putting a shift kit on a proven suspect clutch is not ideal. But if its working for you and others good.
shift kit is a term for automatics of old......short throw shifter is the term you are looking for

Also a "shift kit" with a stock clutch is a great idea one of the best mods you can do aside ditch the factory clutch.....


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