Mid-Engine Corvette Race Car

Discussion in 'Track Cars and Other Cars Forum' started by VoodooBoss, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

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    Looks like Chevy is going to finally up the ante with the mid engine Corvette race car. It may never compete at Le Mans with the GT's if it doesn't run in 2019. I believe the GT program is four years long and the last year would be 2019. Hopefully Ford will have something else ready to roll but I have no knowledge of another race car.

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/motors.../?src=nl&mag=rdt&list=nl_rdt_news&date=080818

    corvette1-final-1533744601.jpg
     
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  2. 302BOB

    302BOB TMO Addict

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    Corvette mid engine long overdue IMHO
     
  3. racer47

    racer47 All I got left is fast

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    I don't know. Is it really needed? The rear mounted transaxle is a good layout. Engine in front, driver in the middle, trans out back, 50/50 front to rear wt, seems pretty ideal to me. Its become the classic Corvette layout. Why mess with it?

    Rear engine means more rear wt and more driver forward seating. Obviously it can be made to work but I guess I'm not a fan. Doesn't really matter tho, I'm not buying one regardless of where the engine is.
     
  4. 302BOB

    302BOB TMO Addict

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    Neither will I. I think the mid engine will be considered an upgrade, much like Ford changing the rear axle format of the Mustang in 2015 (finally).
     
  5. The_Dead_Cow

    The_Dead_Cow Mike

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    I want one!
     
  6. racer47

    racer47 All I got left is fast

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    I agree that for Vette buyers it probably will be considered an upgrade.

    But I'm not a fan of the IRS Mustang either. Stick axle tends to have a bad name but all the GT1 and Trans Am cars are solid axle 9" rear ends and they are all wickedly fast.

    On a race car with all heim ends and proper roll centers, camber gain, etc, an IRS has more speed potential. But on a street car it just introduces more rubber mounts and more flex. The only real benefit I see is that its easier to get more camber and newer radial race tires like camber. But now I've wandered off topic.

    https://www.corvetteforum.com/
     
  7. The_Dead_Cow

    The_Dead_Cow Mike

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    I'm just interested to see an American built mid engine performance car that's hopefully under 3000# or close to it.
     
  8. racer47

    racer47 All I got left is fast

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    Seems unlikely, depending on where you see it, the curb wt of a 2018 vette is listed as 3300 to 3500 lbs. I don't see any inherent weight loss just because its mid engine.
     
  9. The_Dead_Cow

    The_Dead_Cow Mike

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    I agree it's unlikely, but still desireable
     
  10. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson Corner Barstool Sitter

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    Front engine/rear transaxle is a high PMOI arrangement. Good for straight line stability, not so good for yaw response.

    Even 50/50 weight distribution for a front engine/rear drive car isn't quite optimum. 46/54 is supposedly a better place to be.


    Norm
     
  11. racer47

    racer47 All I got left is fast

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    Thats not all exactly right. It is higher polar moment but that usually ranks relatively low on a vehicle dynamicists list of most desirable traits. Although lower is better, no doubt. Also 46/54 is very high rear wt bias for a front engine car.

    Trans Am cars have bigger rear tires than front and they typically run 50-51% rear wt, maybe 52%. I've never seen anyone run 54% rear wt as their base set up.

    Indy cars used to run 55 - 56% rear wt and they have significantly bigger rear tires than fronts.

    I don't know todays numbers. I've been out of the hot pits for a few yrs now. Plus the tire sizes and construction matters a lot. But I can't agree that 46/54 is optimum for a sedan type race car.

    I've always liked racing and race cars because there is no marketing bs, no slimy salesman trying to convince you that you need part X or brand Y. On track performance sorts out all the details and establishes what works and what doesn't. That's why I quote race car specs. Its proven. Not hype.

    I also like race car for sale ads because most racers are matter of fact and when they want to sell their car they list all the good stuff. That info is not always available at the racetrack because many / most old school racers understate what they have. "Oh this old p.o.s., I guess its ok" or "I haven't rebuilt the motor in years" or whatever and then go out and set fast time. Its the new school kids that go on and on and on about how great their car is but then can't back it up. My old stock appearing pos 06 mustang has put many a punk kid (plus a couple gt350's and gt500's) to shame with just standard proven race car mods and setup. (kinda long, slow day at work, guess i got carried away here, sorry)
     
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  12. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

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    Even the Porsche 911 race cars have moved to a mid-engine configuration. I think one of the biggest gains from that layout is aero as evidenced by the Ford GT. The aero on that car is beyond what most street legal cars have been and aero, and lightening of the cars, is where new car development is going. Lots of criticism for Ford using the V6 but it was necessary from an aero perspective.
     
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  13. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson Corner Barstool Sitter

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    I'm thinking of the Panoz LMP and GTR cars rather than more sedan-ish cars here, pretty sure I read where their weight distribution was close to 46/54 rather than 50/50 or 49/51. I don't remember much else about them, but I would certainly expect different size tires, front vs rear.



    As a side note, a little searching turned up that F1 now regulates weight distribution to about a half percentage point either way from 46/54 . . .


    Norm
     
  14. racer47

    racer47 All I got left is fast

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    I'm not against mid engine. For Porsche going from rear engine to mid makes sense and is still Porsche-like. I guess I'm being a bit of a purist. Front engine, rear transaxle is Corvette to me. Front engine, stick axle is Mustang and Camaro muscle car.

    All the marketing guys want their company to be someone else. They say things like "retain the core buyer while reaching out to new markets". Ford wants to be BMW, Corvette wants to be Porsche, even Harley wants to be KTM and/or the Tesla of ebikes (see recent press releases if you're interested). I like the different flavors. I don't want every car to be a mid engine, hybrid and tear drop / areo shaped.
     
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  15. smallblock

    smallblock TMO Advanced

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    There are 3 areas I see for potential weight loss in the mid-engine C8:

    1. Elimination of torque tube, driveshaft, center shear panel, central chassis tunnel 70#ish
    2. Proper transaxle replaces rather large trans and differential assembly 15#ish
    3. Exhaust shortened significantly 15#ish

    Highly unlikely to see 3000# with all the safety/content required now days. Ford thought they would be there with the full carbon construction GT, but it came in above. The change to MR layout could potentially save in the neighborhood of 100# off of C7 weights all else being equal.
     
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  16. ArizonaBOSS

    ArizonaBOSS Because racecar. Moderator

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  17. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson Corner Barstool Sitter

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    I feel the same way; at least partly because going to mid from rear represents a smaller change in a car's overall character than going to mid from front. On the other hand, it's hard to imagine the Corvette ever playing second-fiddle to another bowtie-division performance car.

    Personally, I'd put the change from stick-axle to IRS in Mustangs/Camaros closer to the Porsche going rear to mid with the engine location.


    MBA-suit speak at its finest . . . <gag>


    Norm
     

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