The Mustang Forum for Track & Racing Enthusiasts

Taking your Mustang to an open track/HPDE event for the first time? Do you race competitively? This forum is for you! Log in to remove most ads.

  • Welcome to the Ford Mustang forum built for owners of the Mustang GT350, BOSS 302, GT500, and all other S550, S197, SN95, Fox Body and older Mustangs set up for open track days, road racing, and/or autocross. Join our forum, interact with others, share your build, and help us strengthen this community!

Mounting Oil Temperature Sensor Before Oil Reaches the Boss Oil Cooler?

My apologies to start a new thread but my experience is that sometimes posts to old threads go unanswered. I know that there are about a dozen oil temperature sensor location threads on this board. There are solutions that use the OEM pressure switch sensor location with a T but the conclusion of all those threads are that this might lead to leaks and the sensors reacts too slowly to temperature changes because the sensor is not in the flow of the oil. Similarly, a less than optimal solution is to measure the temperature in sandwich plates that are mounted after the Boss water-to-oil cooler. In this case people are measuring the temperature of the oil after it was already cooled. It is clearly an even less optimal solution than using the OEM pressure location.

It seemed that in this thread: https://trackmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=5574.0 steveespro figured out how to mount the oil temperature sensor in the discharge of the oil pump before the oil reaches the OEM Boss water-to-oil cooler. Replies 11; 12; 16; 18; and 20.
Relevant quotes:
I have my temp sensor plumbed in a sandwich plate on the pressure discharge side of the filter (spud) so it is oil from the sump and through the pump. This should be the hottest readable oil.

using the port in the sump is perfect, that is why it's there, I use the sandwich plate and the nose of the sensor is in the flow of oil as it leaves the pump and heads out to the oil coole, constantly sees fresh oil to rapidly update temperature.

I replaced the Ford supplied plate with one I got on eBay for $39. Had the same 1/2" pipe ports for the cooler hoses with 2 additional 1/8" pipe ports that you can use for gauge sensor either on the outlet or inlet Seidel of the cooler or for a turbo or supercharger oil feed. The plate is anodized CNC machined aluminum and came with -10 AN fittings.

This is the referenced eBay part: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AN-10-Aluminum-Oil-Cooler-Filter-Sandwich-Adapter-Plate-for-Mercury-Ford-Trucks-/110836766506?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19ce62d72a

However, I have a hard time to wrap my head around the solution. If I understand correctly then we should mount the blue eBay plate between the engine block and the Boss water-to-oil cooler or we will never be able to measure the oil temperature as it leaves the engine. If you mount it on the Boss cooler between the cooler and the filter then you are measuring the temperature of the oil that was already cooled.

One side of the eBay sandwich plate can mount on the engine because that is what it was developed for. However, the other side is supposed to mount to the filter while the Boss water-to-oil cooler needs an "engine side" to mount to. So, how do you place this plate between the engine and the Boss cooler? Specifically, what plate are we talking about here: "I replaced the Ford supplied plate with one I got on eBay"?

I am not a mechanic and I am new in this game so please, bear with me. A few pictures of the above solution installed would be probably great help to visualize the order of the parts mounted. Just to clarify again, I am looking for a solution that keeps the OEM Boss oil cooler as a cooling technology while it allows the mounting of the oil temperature sensor in the flow of the oil before the oil is cooled in any way and also allows to add the air-to-oil cooler (either the Cooltech or the FRPP version) as an external cooler. Thank you!
 
I don't think you can read the highest oil temperature using a sandwich plate with the stock water/oil cooler in place, as the oil is cooled prior to exiting the cooler. Tapping into the sump would be an option.

The referenced eBay part: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AN-10-Aluminum-Oil-Cooler-Filter-Sandwich-Adapter-Plate-for-Mercury-Ford-Trucks-/110836766506?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19ce62d72a is used to replace the FRPP air/oil cooler plate which has no sensor fittings.

You cannot put a plate between the stock cooler and the engine, as amongst other things, the hose runs will not work.

Hope this helps!
 
Black Boss said:
I don't think you can read the highest oil temperature using a sandwich plate with the stock water/oil cooler in place, as the oil is cooled prior to exiting the cooler. Tapping into the sump would be an option.

The referenced eBay part: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AN-10-Aluminum-Oil-Cooler-Filter-Sandwich-Adapter-Plate-for-Mercury-Ford-Trucks-/110836766506?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19ce62d72a is used to replace the FRPP air/oil cooler plate which has no sensor fittings.

You cannot put a plate between the stock cooler and the engine, as amongst other things, the hose runs will not work.

Hope this helps!

Thank you for the reply. So the X number of people on this board with the various oil temperature gauges in their 2012 and 2013 Bosses are either:
1) Measuring the temperature of the oil that is not really flowing around the sensor (e.g., sensor is in the same location where the OEM oil pressure sensor switch is located). or
2) Measuring the oil temperature when it was already cooled (which does not make any sense to me). or
3) Deleted their OEM Boss water-to-oil cooler (which is according to Kendall at Cooltech not a good idea even if you have the air-to-oil cooler). or
4) Tapped the oil sump.

Option #4 seems messy. Options #2 and 3 do not make sense. So, we are left with #1, the OEM pressure sensor location as only option? Again my understanding of the technology is limited but why is there not a plate that mounts directly on the engine block (the same way as the OEM Boss water-to-oil cooler) but its only purpose would be to provide a 1-inch or so elevated "lip" for the OEM Boss water to oil cooler to mount on and would have two sensor ports for oil temperature and pressure sensors? Practically an adapter plate for the OEM Boss water-to-oil cooler. Would not such a plate eliminate all the compromises? Is such an adapter plate technologically not possible or just no vendor is willing to do it because of the small market of Boss owners with the simultaneous desire to keep their OEM oil cooler while not tapping the oil sump and measuring true oil temperature at the same time? Seeing that installing the Boss water-to-oil cooler is now an option for 2011+ GT owners, I would think that the market is actually larger than the original Boss owners.
 
I measure my oil temp as most of us do, after the factory cooler in a sandwich plate. I can't remember, but it might be possible to measure oil temp at the oil pressure sensor location in the side of the block and move the pressure sensor to the sandwich plate. My temps, at times, run 265 after the cooler. Ideally, I think the sensor should be in the pan.
 
06mach1 said:
I measure my oil temp as most of us do, after the factory cooler in a sandwich plate. I can't remember, but it might be possible to measure oil temp at the oil pressure sensor location in the side of the block and move the pressure sensor to the sandwich plate. My temps, at times, run 265 after the cooler. Ideally, I think the sensor should be in the pan.

So the OEM pressure sensor location would give accurate and non-delayed temperature readings if the temperature sensor would be plugged directly into the same port that the OEM pressure sensor is using, without all the tee hardware and million threaded little adapter pipes hanging around? If so then I am fine with it. You do not even need to relocate the OEM pressure sensor anywhere, it is enough to jump-wire it and measure pressure in the sandwich plate after the Boss water-to-oil cooler. The pressure there would read the same (?) as in the engine and you could have a better warning mecahnism than the yellow dash light. However, my understanding was that even if you directly plug the temperature sensor into the OEM pressure sensor port on the engine you still would not get accurate and responsive readings for temperature.
 
NWBoss said:
So the OEM pressure sensor location would give accurate and non-delayed temperature readings if the temperature sensor would be plugged directly into the same port that the OEM pressure sensor is using, without all the tee hardware and million threaded little adapter pipes hanging around? If so then I am fine with it. You do not even need to relocate the OEM pressure sensor anywhere, it is enough to jump-wire it and measure pressure in the sandwich plate after the Boss water-to-oil cooler. The pressure there would read the same (?) as in the engine and you could have a better warning mecahnism than the yellow dash light. However, my understanding was that even if you directly plug the temperature sensor into the OEM pressure sensor port on the engine you still would not get accurate and responsive readings for temperature.
I'm no expert on this but I think anything other than a temp from the oil pan is a compromise so you might as well keep it simple and use a sandwich plate. Regardless your readings will be consistent and you'll be able to monitor the temps at the extreme. There should be a way to extrapolate how much cooling is taking place from an X size cooler and you can calculate your max extreme temp from there. FWIW I'm planning on installing the temp gauge before I install a cooler so I can get a baseline to see how effective the cooler is.
 
NFSBOSS said:
I'm no expert on this but I think anything other than a temp from the oil pan is a compromise so you might as well keep it simple and use a sandwich plate. Regardless your readings will be consistent and you'll be able to monitor the temps at the extreme. There should be a way to extrapolate how much cooling is taking place from an X size cooler and you can calculate your max extreme temp from there. FWIW I'm planning on installing the temp gauge before I install a cooler so I can get a baseline to see how effective the cooler is.

Rick, I respectfully disagree. We will be able to monitor the extreme after cooling. And yes, there should be a mathematical formula to extrapolate the extreme before cooling but that will depend on a bunch of variables other than the size of the cooler. Just to name one, the outside temperature. I am pretty sure that the same cooler in 0 F temperature would dissipate more heat than in a 100 F summer day. Let's say you measure the extreme after the cooler to be 270F. On a summer day that might mean that you started out with 280F engine extreme and on a winter day that might have been 300F engine extreme. I will try to find Kendall's thread from the mustangsource and see how they measured the temperatures when they tested. I might also just go ahead and install two temperature sensors. One in the OEM pressure sensor location but within the engine directly and not in a tee tube and the other in the sandwich plate and see the difference if any.
 
Rick: Found Kendall's post. They measured the oil temp at the OEM pressure sensor location. I do not find any information about the oil temperatures that they recorded (he talks about the coolant temperature in later posts). However, message #42 shows that they used the OEM location. http://forums.themustangsource.com/f813/track-temps-cool-tech-llc-update-498788/index3/
The jist of it is T-ing the 1/8" NPT tapped hole for the OEM pressure sensor so that you can have (2) 1/8" NPT's - one for the pressure sensor and one for the temp sensor.
Others on the BMO forum reported leaking and fear of tearing off the hanging hardware of the T so I am not going to T it but I will see if we can install the temp sensor directly in the OEM port, maybe with one adapter but definitely not with a T. Then a sandwich plate at the location you suggested with a pressure and a second temp sensor and see the differences in temperatures and the reaction time of the temperature sensors. I will have multiple Aeroforce gauges anyway so one more sensor will fit and show the temperatures side by side. If we install it then I will report back how it goes.
 
NFSBOSS said:
I'm not going to do a T either. Does anyone else know if moving the pressure sensor to the sandwich plate still reads the same pressure? That might be a good option if it does.

In theory the pressure should be constant anywhere downstream of the pump, until it exits to the sump. I will test that later this week as I'm replacing the LS gauges with AeroMeter's to get color and add Oil temp -- will have both OEM and sandwich plate pressures available temporarily as I switch......

Will post results.
 
Black Boss said:
In theory the pressure should be constant anywhere downstream of the pump, until it exits to the sump. I will test that later this week as I'm replacing the LS gauges with AeroMeter's to get color and add Oil temp -- will have both OEM and sandwich plate pressures available temporarily as I switch......

Will post results.

All right. We might have a testing party soon. I ordered the Prosport sandwich plate, extra 1/8 npt Aeroforce temp sensor, a 1/4 to 1/8 npt reducer for the OEM pressure sensor port. Hopefully everything will be delivered to the shop by end of next week. All other gauge pods, gauges and sensors should arrive by that time, too. Installation date is based on technician's schedule. Testing date depends on weather. Will report results.
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
NWBoss said:
All right. We might have a testing party soon. I ordered the Prosport sandwich plate, extra 1/8 npt Aeroforce temp sensor, a 1/4 to 1/8 npt reducer for the OEM pressure sensor port. Hopefully everything will be delivered to the shop by end of next week. All other gauge pods, gauges and sensors should arrive by that time, too. Installation date is based on technician's schedule. Testing date depends on weather. Will report results.
So, I also will be adding gauges at some point. Look forward to results from everyone. NWBoss , are you are in the Pacific NW? I'm in the greater Seattle area. Who are you using for the install? What other gauges and what gauge pod. I keep looking at the LS pod.
 
Domestic Product said:
So, I also will be adding gauges at some point. Look forward to results from everyone. NWBoss , are you are in the Pacific NW? I'm in the greater Seattle area. Who are you using for the install? What other gauges and what gauge pod. I keep looking at the LS pod.
Yes, I am in the NW but the car is in the Midwest, at least for now. LS pod and Aeroforce gauges. Installation is at the Midwest. Who are you using in the Seattle area? I am driving the car back to NW (not located in Seattle but hard to find shops that I can trust) in a few months. If you know any in your area, please, let me know. Please, send me a PM to keep the thread clean. Thank you.
 
Black Boss said:
In theory the pressure should be constant anywhere downstream of the pump, until it exits to the sump. I will test that later this week as I'm replacing the LS gauges with AeroMeter's to get color and add Oil temp -- will have both OEM and sandwich plate pressures available temporarily as I switch......

Will post results.

Just finished installing the Aerometer Gauges.

Gauge with sensor at sandwich plate is reading 6psi higher than stock at low pressures (51psi versus 45 psi) and 12psi high at high pressures (100 versus 88 psi). Given the linear difference I believe this is mostly gauge and sensor calibration rather than sensor location. The Aerometer gauge also has less damping. At idle there is needle movement with the Red Key, not so with the stock gauge.

Water temps are identical at operating temps but differ at low warm up temperatures -- I believe this is because our cars derive coolant temp from Cylinder head temp -- at low temps the CHT will rise quicker than Coolant temp.
 
Black Boss said:
Just finished installing the Aerometer Gauges.

Gauge with sensor at sandwich plate is reading 6psi higher than stock at low pressures (51psi versus 45 psi) and 12psi high at high pressures (100 versus 88 psi). Given the linear difference I believe this is mostly gauge and sensor calibration rather than sensor location. The Aerometer gauge also has less damping. At idle there is needle movement with the Red Key, not so with the stock gauge.

Water temps are identical at operating temps but differ at low warm up temperatures -- I believe this is because our cars derive coolant temp from Cylinder head temp -- at low temps the CHT will rise quicker than Coolant temp.

Hi Black Boss: Thank you for the reporting. When you mention that "water temps are identical..." do you mean that the coolant temp as can be seen in the Information section (middle) of the dash area and on the new gauge or does the LS has a gauge for coolant temp? If it is the information section then we could capture it via OBD II, correct?
 
NWBoss said:
Hi Black Boss: Thank you for the reporting. When you mention that "water temps are identical..." do you mean that the coolant temp as can be seen in the Information section (middle) of the dash area and on the new gauge or does the LS has a gauge for coolant temp? If it is the information section then we could capture it via OBD II, correct?

The LS has a Coolant Temp Gauge. That was what I used for comparison to the new gauge.
 
Black Boss said:
The LS has a Coolant Temp Gauge. That was what I used for comparison to the new gauge.

But does the LS gauge get the information from the ECU? If yes then the OBD II port gauges would collect the same information. I guess I can test that too because some of my gauges will be OBD II while I will also have the analogue coolant temp sensor.
 

TMO Supporting Vendors

Buy TMO Apparel

Buy TMO Apparel
Top