Mustang Roundup VIII , Sept. 14-16, 2018. Track Mustangs OnTrack!

[302BOB]

Tyme, Not to worry! Your Boss will be cruising at your towing speed, so She will be able to keep up...

 

[Bill Pemberton]

No worries --plenty of space at Hastings , you will be able to find plenty of Primo Spots!! I will try to save one next to the bathroom just for you,though!

 

[VoodooBoss]

Potty humor, I like it!

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Well, I am going to make sure Tyme is faster than .....er.....poop, so it just seems appropriate, ha!

 

[302BOB]

Tyme will be making Tyme....you can bet on that...

 

[suprmn]

Any update on how either the run groups and/or classes will be arraigned?

Same as previous years or have there been adjustments?

 

[TymeSlayer]

Don't worry about my proximity to the bathroom Bill. I travel with my very own Home Depot bucket.

 

[302BOB]

That must be on the bucket list?!?!......Tyme you knew that was coming...

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Similar to last year , but likely the GT 350s will be in their own class.

 

[suprmn]

Similar to last year , but likely the GT 350s will be in their own class.

So classes will be basically the same and lap times will only determine the run group? No changes from last year or previous years then?

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Of course , classes have to be based on performance of the vehicle and could not be based on a previous years lap time , since some folks would come with more power, better tires , etc. and blow away their previous times. Every single Club ( PCA, SCCA, NASA, etc. ) base their classes on model years, performance specs ( tires , hp, brake systems, suspension ,etc.) , and other developemental improvements. It is impossible to meet all the inequities that can occur from year to year, so the formulas often even change from year to year , as newer cars get more advanced. Last year they made a last minute change to put the GT 350s with the Modded Mustang class as there were not enough of them entered. I had suggested the Shelby Classes last year and I again suggested to George that there should be enough this year and they should be in their own Class --- though an R should be separate, as it comes with a DOT track/competition tire. Tires will be the main focus to where a car may get moved ( just like in SCCA or NASA ) , since it is the single biggest factor in how a car performs. Many folks bought the Continental slicks, which NASA allows in the same class as a Hoosier R7. Those that bought them found out they were as grippy as the Hoosier, but they were about 2 seconds slower - this tire was developed for Daytona, by Hoosier ( Continental owns Hoosier Tires). The used Pirelli slicks , many had switched to, are quicker than the Hoosiers , and some knew this and took advantage of it. As in any automotive sport there are many variables in determining where vehicles should be placed and with only 50-65 cars running at Hastings, the classes are structured to be as fair as possible to the entrants. We will be checking tires more closely this year , as we had some folks switch in years past from a street tire to a more competitive tire and then trophy. In an effort to make sure this does not happen again, tires with a tread wear rating lower than 200 will be considered DOT competition rubber, and will move drivers up a class. We do plan on letting the used Pirelli slicks and the Continental slicks to run with those running Hoosier R7s. One issue that came up last year were drivers in actual race cars running DOT street tires and wanting to run with stock or modified cars. This will not occur, as a race car is just that, and if you select to run an inferior tire to your competition that will not move you out of the caged cars. There are other items to help class , but hopefully this explains some of the complexity of classing machines, and why we are attempting to follow the SCCA and NASA rules , in particular, as they have the best knowledge base in the industry.

 

[suprmn]

Bill......I completely respect and thank you for the information provided. You have a wealth of knowledge which everyone should take advantage if possible!!

I do feel however, previous lap times can be used to "formulate" as to where a car/driver should be placed. Not only by using previous times of drivers who have not completely changed cars but also by using times they put down on Friday prior to officially keeping time Saturday. (Use Friday to evaluate car/driver and lap times.)

As you have noticed I am not just speaking of the cars themselves. We all know in every sport you can "classify" and/or "regulate" the rules of the game but cannot do so with athletic ability/talent.

Sure you can say a "stock" 2018 Mustang belongs in a "stock" class for all intense purposes when classifying under the "rules." But when using it in the method of track times you have to point out other "factors" just as you laid out with tires.

Can you put a brand new driver (never driven on a track before or on said track before) into a "stock" class....yes. And he/she will lay down their best times.

Then use the exact same vehicle (King of The Hill for example) and place an experienced driver in the very same seat and we all know the results will vary immensely.

Now when you factor in the following I believe you can "even" out the playing field:

1. Make/Model/Year of Vehicle
2. Previous lap times if applicable.....Year(s) prior and/or Friday
3. Modifications (Tires, Wing, Power, etc)
4. Driver's experience

*Please keep in mind these are my thoughts and opinions of how I feel the field could be set outside of just a "class" per se.

We are all out there to have fun, be safe and enjoy the vehicles/people. And of course compete!!!

 

[12coBoss]

I will be taking the path in red below with the below tire. See you all in the pits!!

 

[TMSBOSS]

12coBoss.
Thanks. The posts above were waaaaay to serious. My goal for the round up is to go, drive, not wreck, meet new folks and have fun. Worrying about times, categories, who did what when......not so much.
Just curious.......how much Camber do you run with those mudders?

Sorry Bill.

 

[VoodooBoss]

I will be taking the path in red below with the below tire. See you all in the pits!!

View attachment 4550View attachment 4551

That should keep your lap times competitive!

 

[302BOB]

That should keep your lap times competitive!

My lap tymes around my neighborhood have improved over the years...my street is the cool down lane, for good reason..

 

[TymeSlayer]

Remember folks, no passing the pace car under any circumstances. I'm with TMS, as a first timer on this track, I'm just looking to stay on the asphalt, learn the track and enjoy my tyme in Hastings. If I'm in need of those tires that 12coBoss has, we're all in trouble.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I understand your concept, but unfortunately it is just not feasible, as it would be tremendously time consuming to set up classes, guess on the newcomer's positions, and try to analyse what changes have occurred in the performance field -- tire changes , shock and suspension systems, etc. George has tried to make classes as simple as possible and not make too many groupings, since this is a yearly event and geared to one model of car -- Mustangs. Track time is what will set most folks apart, as someone could have run a certain time last year , but this year they may have gotten super serious and been to 5-10 events. This would not place them fairly against someone else that ran a similar time last year. Just one example , but there are just too many variables and George, Gary , and myself , tried years ago to even the field as much as possible , yet it never works for everyone, regardless. We have often had trophies for Novice Drivers, Most Improved Driver, etc., to encompass more participants, but class wins need to stay as designed , since they are essentially based off of legitimate rules from SCCA or NASA. As you know with SCCA when you Autocross , the only way to catch the more experienced drivers is to get a ton of seat time. It is frustrating when folks start , but seat time is the answer for all , and we have all been there. Same thing with guys/gals that golf, the ones they are chasing usually play a lot more. The Mustang Roundup is constrained by being a once a year event, and the amount of work that is done by the track is more than most realize , and time and money controls the classifications. Members of SCCA, NASA, PCA , etc. often have rule changes during the year due to all the improvements in cars , aftermarket products , etc. and this illustrates how difficult it is to try and level the field. Heck, if we used track time as an indicator for instance, I could probably run Novice , as I have been on track only 5 times in the last 4 years ( not counting autocrosses ). Since I am semi working, now, I am gearing up to get serious again, and have a track event at Topeka this weekend, which will mark my 3rd time on track this year.

I realize this may not answer all your concerns, but hopefully it explains how a special event , run only yearly, has to use some basic parameters, since there is no concrete way to keep up with everything ....but we will monitor tires more closely since this has been an area some have fudged on in the past. DOT wear rating of 200 or higher for stock ( along with some other performance parameters) , and just because a tire came on the car standard , that will not leave you in a stock class ( example GT 350R - Pilot Sport Cups are DOT competition and lower than a 200 tread wear rating). There will be some battles with folks who are running BFGs or Bridgestones , as these are the current Kings in Street Classes with SCCA , but as they are both 200 rated, their may be a surprise or two - one brand now has a larger size and we have not addressed that ( and we don't plan too ).

See you there and do ask folks a lot of questions about their Mustangs , as I often find I am a year behind trends, since I have not been running much. Running this year in the Race Car Class, I and others may have issues , as we are lumping all the caged cars together. Got a feeling Black Boss and his GT 350 track beast will be eating a lot of our lunches?

 

[Bill Pemberton]

For those of you who have not signed up, this is one of the best places in the US to check out what some of the Hotshoes are doing to their Bosses, GT 350s, Shelbys, and GTs. One of the things about modding or improving your car or driving is that often there are not many in your area running Mustangs , or they may be different models than you possess. With so many Mustangs in different levels of performance and modification, this is the place to be to see first hand what works , what doesn't and to get ideas that will help you improve. Also there is Instruction if you sign up for that , and the guys helping are also Mustang drivers.

www.racemph.com

Sign up for the Mustang Roundup.

 

[suprmn]

Thank you for the breakdown and reply Bill. It is appreciated.

I plan to enjoy the cars, Track and people while focusing on finally hitting that 1:39.999 mark. Finished last year at 1:40.369!

So I just need a run group......no class.