The Mustang Forum for Track & Racing Enthusiasts

Taking your Mustang to an open track/HPDE event for the first time? Do you race competitively? This forum is for you! Log in to remove most ads.

  • Welcome to the Ford Mustang forum built for owners of the Mustang GT350, BOSS 302, GT500, and all other S550, S197, SN95, Fox Body and older Mustangs set up for open track days, road racing, and/or autocross. Join our forum, interact with others, share your build, and help us strengthen this community!

My motor blew up......now what?

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,519
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
I apologize for my ignorance up front but I'm not getting the concept.

I always thought that getting the oil off the crank would help reduce horsepower loss. But how does it help reduce the chance of a blown engine?

Can the amount of oil that would otherwise remain up in the crank exceed 8 fluid ounces? Even a pint? With a larger capacity & baffled oil pan, how does that make a difference?
It’s about oil control. Keeping it in the pan, not whipped up in windage, getting beat up, heated and turned into foam. The horse power gain is a bonus. The main purpose is to keep oil pure fluid and in the pan so the pump can send 100% foam free oil to the bearings. as soon as you loose that pressure fed oil wedge between moving parts bearings start to fail and we all know what happens after that.
 
Last edited:

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,519
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
I apologize for my ignorance up front but I'm not getting the concept.

I always thought that getting the oil off the crank would help reduce horsepower loss. But how does it help reduce the chance of a blown engine?

Can the amount of oil that would otherwise remain up in the crank exceed 8 fluid ounces? Even a pint? With a larger capacity & baffled oil pan, how does that make a difference?
The crank can whip up several quarts of oil and turn it to foam…what’s happening in there is basically a cyclone. Smokey Yunick made a clear oil pan and proved this concept back in the 50’s. Been common knowledge since. This is why a dry sump is so efficient. No oil in the pan at all. As soon as it hits the bottom of the pan it’s sucked up and sent to a several gallon tank where the oil is spun through plates and air is separated from it so by the time the oil is pumped back into the engine its 100% foam free. The bonus is again, freeing up horsepower that would otherwise be wasted churning up oil and turning it into foam.
 
Thought I would post an update since it's been almost a year and a half since I started this post. Waited from April until December before giving up on ever getting my crank scraper and tray so I got most of this done in the last 5 weeks. Other than the upgraded valve springs, L&M intake cams and GT500 oil pan kit it's the stock Boss heads and Gen 1 timing gear on a new Gen 3 short block. Timing cover will go on next once I figure out how to replace the crank seal. There will be larger fuel injectors for an E85 tune and ported CJ intake manifold. Then it goes to the tuner for install. Hoping for 500HP.

IMG_1221.JPEG

IMG_1222.JPEG

IMG_1237.JPEG
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,519
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Getting the crank scraper was a pain in the ass... had to call them every couple of days until it was shipped. But your motor looks great!
I just sweet talked is wife into making him push mine to the front of the line. :)

Shaun is making them now so that's the go to place to get them.
 
1,161
2,116
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
SoCal
Thought I would post an update since it's been almost a year and a half since I started this post. Waited from April until December before giving up on ever getting my crank scraper and tray so I got most of this done in the last 5 weeks. Other than the upgraded valve springs, L&M intake cams and GT500 oil pan kit it's the stock Boss heads and Gen 1 timing gear on a new Gen 3 short block. Timing cover will go on next once I figure out how to replace the crank seal. There will be larger fuel injectors for an E85 tune and ported CJ intake manifold. Then it goes to the tuner for install. Hoping for 500HP.

View attachment 83750

View attachment 83751

View attachment 83752
Good call making sure you have that crank seal right - it has to be recessed into the timing cover. @captdistraction shared this diagram earlier;

AEFE7951-B5FF-4C32-907A-E54BBCB213C1.png
 
Good call making sure you have that crank seal right - it has to be recessed into the timing cover. @captdistraction shared this diagram earlier;

View attachment 83755
Holy crap.......I thought you just press it in and it's done. So the cover has to be on the car to replace the seal? I was going to pop it in and then put the cover on. Glad you posted this. The Ford manual doesn't get into this unless I missed it.
 
1,161
2,116
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
SoCal
Holy crap.......I thought you just press it in and it's done. So the cover has to be on the car to replace the seal? I was going to pop it in and then put the cover on. Glad you posted this. The Ford manual doesn't get into this unless I missed it.
I did the same thing - assumed it was flush. The factory service manual doesn’t mention it because the recess is built into the Rotunda tool.
 
898
544
I did the same thing - assumed it was flush. The factory service manual doesn’t mention it because the recess is built into the Rotunda tool.
Front cover and rear main seal both need to be installed using the tools called out in the manual to ensure the seals are square and at the proper depth.
 
1,161
2,116
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
SoCal
Front cover and rear main seal both need to be installed using the tools called out in the manual to ensure the seals are square and at the proper depth.
Good call, I bought mine as an assembled shortblock so the rear main was already installed. I plan on rebuilding my original shortblock so I’ll write a reminder in the assembly manual.
 
898
544
Good call, I bought mine as an assembled shortblock so the rear main was already installed. I plan on rebuilding my original shortblock so I’ll write a reminder in the assembly manual.
If it is a Gen 3 short block going into a Gen 1 / Gen 2 car, you will need to swap the rear main seal retainer plate for a Gen 1 and install a new seal. The Gen 3 uses a different crank sensor and the retainer plate is cast differently for the sensor.
 
When I first saw the title of this thread................My first thought was........put your gas foot on a diet............We all know that ain't the answer....A blown motor is something that you hope never happens to you...If it does, A part of you goes with it....That's a feeling you can never describe to anybody...............:nono:
 
If it is a Gen 3 short block going into a Gen 1 / Gen 2 car, you will need to swap the rear main seal retainer plate for a Gen 1 and install a new seal. The Gen 3 uses a different crank sensor and the retainer plate is cast differently for the sensor.
Yup I did remember you telling me that a while back and that's what I did
 
12
7
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Long Island NY
Good call making sure you have that crank seal right - it has to be recessed into the timing cover. @captdistraction shared this diagram earlier;

View attachment 83755
I don't think this diagram is telling you to recess the seal. It is giving you the max runout of the housing and seal in relation the to centerline of the crankshaft. It wants you to first check the housing runout and then check the seal runout after install. No more than 0.50 FIM (Full Indicator Movement) runout so the seal is square with the crankshaft and not crooked. It is not telling you to recess the seal 0.50.
 
1,161
2,116
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
SoCal
I don't think this diagram is telling you to recess the seal. It is giving you the max runout of the housing and seal in relation the to centerline of the crankshaft. It wants you to first check the housing runout and then check the seal runout after install. No more than 0.50 FIM (Full Indicator Movement) runout so the seal is square with the crankshaft and not crooked. It is not telling you to recess the seal 0.50.
The diagram in the upper right is the only visual that I’ve seen that shows the metal portion of the seal set back slightly in the cover. You’re right, there is no specific measurement provided for the depth. I think it’s assumed you’re using the specific Rotunda seal press that has the depth built into the tool. I can say from experience that installing it flush will damage the lip of the seal after a short amount of time.
 
Well, after almost two years I finally have a running car back in the garage. Adam at Revolution Automotive tuned it for 100 octane and E85. I was a bit disappointed with the dyno results but I'm not competing so it will still be a great track day and HPDE car.
The 100 octane tune only made 4HP more than the original motor but with the larger Gen3 block and ported CJ manifold, I expected more. I really thought the E85 was going to make more than 500HP but Adam said the FP CAI was restrictive. A larger CAI will likely get me over 500 but it doesn't really matter. We cut power at 7800 as the curve was flat at that point.

Dyno.JPEG
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,519
8,154
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Well, after almost two years I finally have a running car back in the garage. Adam at Revolution Automotive tuned it for 100 octane and E85. I was a bit disappointed with the dyno results but I'm not competing so it will still be a great track day and HPDE car.
The 100 octane tune only made 4HP more than the original motor but with the larger Gen3 block and ported CJ manifold, I expected more. I really thought the E85 was going to make more than 500HP but Adam said the FP CAI was restrictive. A larger CAI will likely get me over 500 but it doesn't really matter. We cut power at 7800 as the curve was flat at that point.

View attachment 87758
@Mad Hatter and I both have the FP cai and are both over 500 whp so I’d be surprised if that was the case. Like @Coz said, a cool day could be enough to make the difference. Regardless, that’s still great power for a 5 liter.
 
Last edited:

TMO Supporting Vendors

Top