need a new truck

[Bill Pemberton]

The Ram 1/2 ton Diesel has been around for a decades , but 2023 is the last year for it. A lot of the Manufacturers are wandering away from the lightweight Diesels so it that is your conceived direction I would try and snag a Ram, they are the only brand with a 1/2 Diesel in their line up for any period of time. Otherwise I would determine your driving habits as a full size 1/2 will get fairly decent mileage in both the Ram and Ecoboost, and when you do tow they each have the capacity to yank around 10,000 lbs.

 

[twistedneck]

op, I have some experience towing in your neck of the woods with both a 23' F-150 and a 99' F-250 V10.

23' F-150 Hybrid Crew Cab Long Bed
~8,000lb enclosed trailer. Acceleration wise, the truck does not know anything is behind it. The hybrid 3.5's are staggeringly quick. Getting onto the freeway I never needed more than 3500RPM. The ecoboosts are basically a diesel. Such an effortless, refined powertrain.

Going up the grapevine, the truck held 60mph (I believe it was 5th gear, 3500RPM) no problem, and had plenty more pulling power to give. Felt like I could've gone 80mph up that hill. Going down the grapevine, the truck wasn't able to hold the trailer back very well. I had to do quite a few brake applications to keep the truck from going much faster than 60mph. It was by all means manageable and not "scary", but definitely reminded me that I was moving a lotttttt of weight. Going down most hills (ie not ridiculously steep like the grapevine), the truck was awesome, and I was able to use the electric motor to hold back the truck. Really cool and fun experience TBH.

The key here (nobody seems to ever mention or understand this) is a weight distributing anti-sway hitch. As you may know, winds can become pretty severe on HWY-5. Unlike the F-250, I felt the trailer moving around with the wind when I was in the F-150. And that is with the weight distribution hitch! Towing an enclosed with an F-150 without a good hitch would not be safe, responsible or enjoyable IMO. With that being said, at no point in time did I think I "needed" an F-250. Wanted? Maybe.....But by no means needed.

On flat ground with no winds, the truck gave me 10.4mpg. Going against the wind, MPG dropped drastically, ~8.5mpg if I remember correctly. Both at 65mph.

99' F-250 6.8L V10
~8000lb enclosed trailer. The V10 was a dog and couldn't get above 45mph going up the grapevine. Concerning in some regards, but also not concerning considering the big rigs are usually going 30-40mph anyways. Just tuck in with them and have a chill time. Surprisingly, that F-250 gave me ~9-9.5mpg while towing the enclosed trailer. With a weight distribution hitch, I genuinely did not know the trailer was back there other than accelerating and braking.

General comfort wise, the 99' F250 was like a 3rd world dump truck compared to the F-150. Trucks have come a staggeringly long way in 20 years. They are stupidly expensive but I almost think they are worth it.

For every person that went from gas to diesel and has had a good experience, there is one that hasn't. Driving an F-250 everyday just for commuting is borderline irresponsible imo. So if you are using the truck as a daily driver, I would caution against an F-250. If all you will use the truck for is towing, F-250 all the way.

Given your application of driving the truck everyday and then towing 6x a year, I would recommend F-150 or ranger. I think I read somewhere that Ford is revamping the ranger for 2024 so it might be worth it to wait. Also look into the chevy colorado diesel if you are towing an open trailer.

I wonder how the new F250's would compare to that old 99?

 

[PatientZero]

The Ram 1/2 ton Diesel has been around for a decades , but 2023 is the last year for it. A lot of the Manufacturers are wandering away from the lightweight Diesels so it that is your conceived direction I would try and snag a Ram, they are the only brand with a 1/2 Diesel in their line up for any period of time. Otherwise I would determine your driving habits as a full size 1/2 will get fairly decent mileage in both the Ram and Ecoboost, and when you do tow they each have the capacity to yank around 10,000 lbs.

I had a 2021 Ram with the eTorque 5.7 Hemi. Power was never an issue, I really loved that truck. Gas mileage however was awful. 17-18 mpg highway and 11-12 towing the car. It was no better than my current 2011 Yukon or my previous 2010 F150 although the ride was alot nicer. It drove better than some cars.
The 3.0 Duramax has been available since 2019, I just didn't know it existed. Ford also has a 3.0 Powerstroke. I had never heard about any of these until the last couple weeks. I'll look into the Ram too.

 

[PatientZero]

I guess the 3L Powerstroke has been available since 2018? Who knew?

Diesel Half-Ton Tug of War: Chevy vs. Ford vs. Ram

The light-duty Chevy Silverado, Ford F-150, and Ram 1500 fight for trailer-towing, fuel-sipping supremacy.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[SMGDHG]

I wonder how the new F250's would compare to that old 99?

I’ve heard the new gas 7.3L tows better than the 7.3L, 6.0L power stroke diesels, so will most certainly tow better than the 2v V-10. But the 7.3’s seem to be suffering from lifter failures. I really wanted one but won’t purchase one until ford admits they “fixed” the issue. Lots of theories out there as to why it is happening.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Well, lead foot Zero I get 19-22 with my Ram, but I have had a couple and they do ride phenomenally. Funny thing is most of the guys with them and Ecoboosts talk about mileage getting better after 20,000 miles and that was the case with both of my Rams.

 

[SMGDHG]

I had a 2021 Ram with the eTorque 5.7 Hemi. Power was never an issue, I really loved that truck. Gas mileage however was awful. 17-18 mpg highway and 11-12 towing the car. It was no better than my current 2011 Yukon or my previous 2010 F150 although the ride was alot nicer. It drove better than some cars.
The 3.0 Duramax has been available since 2019, I just didn't know it existed. Ford also has a 3.0 Powerstroke. I had never heard about any of these until the last couple weeks. I'll look into the Ram too.

FWIW I think both the ram and the ford diesels are basically re-purposed marine diesels from other brands. As is the case with most diesels, the engines themselves are fantastic but everything around them gives issues.

I have been very happy with the hybrid f150 other than towing mpg.

 

[PatientZero]

Well, lead foot Zero I get 19-22 with my Ram, but I have had a couple and they do ride phenomenally. Funny thing is most of the guys with them and Ecoboosts talk about mileage getting better after 20,000 miles and that was the case with both of my Rams.

Do you have the eTorque version? I had read there was talks about a lawsuit because the eTorque didn't get anywhere near the advertised MPG numbers and the regular 5.7 actually did better.

I used to have a 2001 Ram 1500 with the 4.7 and it would get 21mpg easily.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I have a 2022 etorque and it is getting almost the same as my 2014 5.7 did once I hit 20,000 miles. Was getting 21 driving out to Lincoln for the Solo Nationals and it dropped to 19+ on the way back fighting the wind.

 

[Dave_W]

I think both the ram and the ford diesels are basically re-purposed marine diesels from other brands.

The Dodge/Jeep (in the Grand Cherokee) EcoDiesel 3.0L V6 is a VM Motori / Fiat unit that's also used in some Maserati cars in Europe. There was a different VMM diesel that was also used for a BMW Marine stern-drive, but it was primarily an auto engine. The version used by Dodge & Jeep started as a joint project with GM for Euro Caddy engines before GM went bankrupt (with Cadillac leaving the Euro market and Saab being put up for sale) and Fiat bought GM's stake in VMM to use the engine.

 

[PatrickStapler]

I’ve heard the new gas 7.3L tows better than the 7.3L, 6.0L power stroke diesels, so will most certainly tow better than the 2v V-10. But the 7.3’s seem to be suffering from lifter failures. I really wanted one but won’t purchase one until ford admits they “fixed” the issue. Lots of theories out there as to why it is happening.

I rented a brand new ‘20 F350 with the 7.3L gas burner and 10speed tranny before I got my F250 6.7L D in ‘20. It was the absolute worst towing experience I’ve ever had. I think it averaged about 6MPG and constantly hunted for gears. I was literally afraid to pull out in traffic to pass someone because the seemingly lack of any torque whatsoever. I’m not sure why Ford even offers it if that’s the best it can do.

 

[Tonymustang302]

That motor was made for towing lol. Ford really makes some dumb decisions.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Oddly, that engine in a boat, just set a water skying world record for number of skiers being pulled down here in Fla. That is all torque, I wonder if the final drive in the truck is the problem?

 

[PatrickStapler]

Oddly, that engine in a boat, just set a water skying world record for number of skiers being pulled down here in Fla. That is all torque, I wonder if the final drive in the truck is the problem?

I think the truck I rented had 4.11's.

 

[SMGDHG]

I rented a brand new ‘20 F350 with the 7.3L gas burner and 10speed tranny before I got my F250 6.7L D in ‘20. It was the absolute worst towing experience I’ve ever had. I think it averaged about 6MPG and constantly hunted for gears. I was literally afraid to pull out in traffic to pass someone because the seemingly lack of any torque whatsoever. I’m not sure why Ford even offers it if that’s the best it can do.

I have heard the 10speeds (especially 2020) have been ridiculously awful, and usually exhibit the behavior you describe shortly before achieving total failure. But everything I have read (from owners, those TFL truck guys on utube that do the towing tests) suggests the 7.3L gas w/4.30 gears tows really well when all is in tip top shape. 6MPG is really bad, what were you towing?

The F-250 forums sorta remind me of german car forums. 50% of the posts are "I love this truck when it works, it's spent more time at the dealership" and then the other 50% are "my truck has 300,000 miles I never change the oil and it's never had a problem." Funny juxtaposition

 

[PatrickStapler]

24’ enclosed fully loaded…about 9Klbs. I would have expected better performance out of a brand new truck. I was the first renter. I think it had less than 100 miles on it.
I have to say…knock on wood, other than the death wobble, my ‘15 F250 has been awesome. 210K miles. I got it with 150K on the clock. I’m pretty sure after replacing the entire front steering system, except the steering box, I have solved the DW. I’m almost 90% certain it was the track bar and track bar ball joint that fixed it.

 

[blacksheep-1]

24’ enclosed fully loaded…about 9Klbs. I would have expected better performance out of a brand new truck. I was the first renter. I think it had less than 100 miles on it.
I have to say…knock on wood, other than the death wobble, my ‘15 F250 has been awesome. 210K miles. I got it with 150K on the clock. I’m pretty sure after replacing the entire front steering system, except the steering box, I have solved the DW. I’m almost 90% certain it was the track bar and track bar ball joint that fixed it.

Noted...

 

[DaveW]

I rented a brand new ‘20 F350 with the 7.3L gas burner and 10speed tranny before I got my F250 6.7L D in ‘20. It was the absolute worst towing experience I’ve ever had. I think it averaged about 6MPG and constantly hunted for gears. I was literally afraid to pull out in traffic to pass someone because the seemingly lack of any torque whatsoever. I’m not sure why Ford even offers it if that’s the best it can do.

You probably already experienced this, but I can see that being an issue with the gasser. I just got a 23 F350 Dually with 4.10/6.7/10 speed. It is right at 2100rpm at 73 mph and with my 16k lb trailer it will basically hold 10th gear on almost any hill/condition. Even with the diesel, running 60-65 has it hunting gears. I usually lock out 10th if stuck at these speeds for long.

That same RPM range with a gasser would be terrible. 7.3 is a good motor, but needs to rev a little (I assume). Back in the day, we towed with a E350 van with v10 and when I upgraded it to 4:30 gears, it made towing much better.

DaveW