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new engine for the gt...suggestions on part selection?

pufferfish

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well, the jury is still out on whether ford will warranty or help with a new engine cost or wash their hands of me. in any case, I need a plan for a new engine. I evaluated my options in the aftermarket and for cost and desired results, a boss crate engine is the way to go...almost. since the engine is out and the dealer who has the car torn apart could care less what goes back in, I want to look at the most cost effective mods to add while the engine bay is empty.

everything I want to do is for longevity, not power production. I am going to stick with the kooks shorties (with test pipes until emission season rolls around), a CAI and a tune.

so, the engine comes with the oil cooler adapter, but not the cooler. I will need to purchase this. I plan on adding some gauges so I don't have to trust idiot lights that don't actually do anything until the damage is done. I think I should go ahead and get the CJ pulse ring. I am also going to be looking at new clutches. not that mine is bad, but no sense in leaving the stocker in there since its apart. I was also thinking about a radiator. what else should I add?

so, lots of you have added mods or have thought about what you would add if your motor goes up. well, lets hear what you would add to an already stout boss engine.
 

steveespo

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Steve
Do the Aluminator N/A- Price is $4k less than a Boss motor and has improved oil pump gears, Boss Valve springs (good to 8000), Manley H-Beam real forged rods with ARP bolts, and Mahle real forged hard anodized pistons with Graphal coating. What you don't get is the Boss exhaust cam and 1 mm larger valve and CNC heads, Boss oil pan ($150), kinda forged hypereutectic Mahle pistons, Kinda forged powder metal connecting rods, and the right to say I have a Boss engine in my car. Personally I think the Aluminator is more reliable, more economical and will make the same power as the Boss long block part for part, tune for tune. I am subscribed to the build as I may be going down this road sometime too.
Steve
 

pufferfish

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I have been considering the aluminator (I haven't yet gotten prices from my distributor on it though). the big deterrent is the heads and cams. with the stock gt engine, I had swapped between the boss and gt intakes multiple times as the mid range is all gt and the upper end is all boss, but not as crazy as I had hoped and kept thinking that if I had the cams, lighter valvetrain and ported heads, the boss intake would really shine.

for reference, I put my car on the mobile dyno at Carlisle for giggles. with the boss intake, cai, headers and tune, it was 403rwhp/347rwtq. a '13 gt with a cai and tune got on right after me and did 388/376. the 29ftlb loss was not worth the 15hp gain. I would think that the head flow would have made that hp number 20hp higher, which would have been worth the tq loss.

now, this statement does go against my previous statement of "not for power production", but of course, I want to net at least a bit more power from a complete engine change ;)
 

pufferfish

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I guess I assumed I was going to have to get something like that, but now I see the boss cooler is just a water to oil cooler sandwiched between the block and filter, which appears to be included with the crate engine. I will have to see what kind of discount I can get on the 302S. if it blows my budget, I may need to consider a homebrew version or kick that can down the road

so, for those who use the air to oil cooler setups on bosses, do you put it inline with the factory cooler or replace it with the adapter?

my new gt500 front tow hook kit would be a must for the 302S unit since it, like the sc heat exchanger, compete for space with my current bracket. jeezus, if you had a sc, you wouldn't be able to run an external oil cooler! that would suck...that's when you would REALLY need one! I wonder if the splitter bracket can piggyback with the 302S oil cooler bracket? I know the gt500 heat exchanger does not place nice with the splitter bracket.
 

ArizonaBOSS

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pufferfish said:
I guess I assumed I was going to have to get something like that, but now I see the boss cooler is just a water to oil cooler sandwiched between the block and filter, which appears to be included with the crate engine. I will have to see what kind of discount I can get on the 302S. if it blows my budget, I may need to consider a homebrew version or kick that can down the road

so, for those who use the air to oil cooler setups on bosses, do you put it inline with the factory cooler or replace it with the adapter?

my new gt500 front tow hook kit would be a must for the 302S unit since it, like the sc heat exchanger, compete for space with my current bracket. jeezus, if you had a sc, you wouldn't be able to run an external oil cooler! that would suck...that's when you would REALLY need one! I wonder if the splitter bracket can piggyback with the 302S oil cooler bracket? I know the gt500 heat exchanger does not place nice with the splitter bracket.

You run the 302S cooler inline with the existing B302 cooler. An additional sandwich plate is supplied with the kit and it simply screws onto the "existing" (to be installed, in your case) factory cooler.
The heat exchanger in the 302S kit bolts (after you drill 4 holes) to the bottom of the upper core support, it's directly behind the upper grille, not in the lower grille like an intercooler. I have the FRPP bracket installed for the splitter and there is no clearance issue whatsoever; so you might be able to use your "standard" brackets.

Also you might want to PM captdistraction here, he's got a (relatively) low-buck cooler setup on his car and the data he's got says it works well.
 

pufferfish

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AAHHH! that makes more sense. the bracket looked deceivingly like it mounts to the back of the bumper beam, like the heat exchangers do.

captdistraction want to chime in on the low-buck solution? very interested in this!
 
pufferfish said:
AAHHH! that makes more sense. the bracket looked deceivingly like it mounts to the back of the bumper beam, like the heat exchangers do.

captdistraction want to chime in on the low-buck solution? very interested in this!
The FRPP cooler works very well and yes it's designed to run in series with the factory water to oil cooler. My oil temps have stayed in the 230s even in brutal 100* ambient at almost 2,000 ft above sea level........but of course I'm very easy on parts ::)
 
Should be able to just buy some lines, sandwich plate, cooler, and thermostat to make your own cooler. That's what my dad and I did for our termy fox, got a canton plate and mocal cooler, think it was 400-500 in parts maybe.
 
Or you could opt for the CJ crate motor, makes 500 horse, not cheap, has all the good guts, revs to 8,000. :D

but it's not about the power, the aluminator is likely the other best option. add a boss intake, headers, CAI, should be close in power.
 

pufferfish

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I learned some things today...
1) ford discontinued the boss crate engine and they have NO stock left. Jegs and Summit both would have to purchase from ford, so they may still list them, but you will never get one if you ordered it. I don't know of any dealer that stocks an $11k engine, so most likely, one will never be purchased again.
2) the new aluminator XS 500+hp monster cannot be sold to my ford dealer (not that I could afford it anyhow). supposedly, only race teams can purchase them.
3) my ford dealer (where the car is now), isn't a ford racing dealer, so they have no ability to help on price.


so, my plans are thwarted. back to the drawing board. the base aluminator is a possibility, but at $8900, any all forged rebuild can be had for less and be exactly the same. Hell, I can basically duplicate the CJ (without the intake) for under $10k...already got the price from MMR.
 

ArizonaBOSS

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pufferfish said:
Hell, I can basically duplicate the CJ (without the intake) for under $10k...already got the price from MMR.

That sounds like a good idea. Or aluminator shortblock with Boss heads (you should still be able to buy those) and valvetrain/intake.
 

steveespo

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I am sure there are Boss service long blocks in the Ford Parts pipeline, you would probably need a VIN but I am sure someone around here would "loan" you a VIN if that is your wish. Aluminator with CJ intake and good RR oil pan is also a good option as you see. But there are 3 other options you could investigate; salvage Boss or GT engine, aftermarket custom rebuilds and Ford Service GT longblock. All will be cheaper than the Boss or Aluminator.
Steve
 

pufferfish

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i don't want to get anyone's VIN on Ford's radar. If they actually do have issues in the future, it could really hurt them. i had a salvage company do a national search for a boss engine and none turned up. i could see a forged short block with a new set of boss heads with cams. i think i could get some better breathing cams for the same price as the boss cams, though.
 

ArizonaBOSS

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There is nothing really "magical" about a Boss short block, if you can't order it in one shot. It's the same BLOCK as the Coyote, with fully forged rotating assembly (which you can obviously order in the aftermarket, Ford OEM or not). Then you add on the BOSS heads and valvetrain stuff, and your choice of intakes from the FRPP catalog.

You should try to get a BOSS alternator for sure, though, or at least get a much larger pulley for a regular alternator.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Intake valley FOAM ;) Just kiddin'

If I were in a similar situation, I think you've got most of what I'd do to my GT:

Oil pan
CJ pulse ring
Built GT shortblock
I'd keep the piston squirters
Boss heads/cams (I'd do a hand polish on the ports and chambers)
Clutch
See Chris' oil cooler/stacked sandwich solution
Boss timing chain tensioners
Oil/air separators or breathers
 
I think I'd do the MMR tensioners over the stock ones. And what is better about the CJ pulse ring over the GT or Boss one?
 

steveespo

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Brandon302 said:
I think I'd do the MMR tensioners over the stock ones. And what is better about the CJ pulse ring over the GT or Boss one?

IIRC it has a narrower Top Dead Center notch which means more precise crank position info for timing and fuel delivery. This allows more stable high rpm operation (8200) than with the stock piece.
Steve
 
pufferfish said:
Hell, I can basically duplicate the CJ (without the intake) for under $10k...already got the price from MMR.

I would stay as far away from MMR as I could to be honest. Way to many horror stories for me to feel comfortable about them but that is just me. I know that Yellow Blaze (? I forget his name to be honest but the guy from Arizona with the yellow boss) has an MMR shortblock but I still don't trust them to be honest. But like I said that is just my opinion.

Either way I would upgrade the Oil Pump to the either the CJ Oil pump or get some TSS Gears. The difference between the CJ pulse ring as Steve has said and the pulse ring that comes in the GT/Boss is that the CJ Pulse ring can cleanly red the signals all the way up 8200 RPM while the GT/Boss Pulse ring can read the signals up to 7600 RPM IIRC. For $90 it is just cheap insurance in my opinion. Also, talk to Steve at Tousley, he should be able to get you an Aluminator XS if that is what you choose to do so. A 500+ HP engine that has a 2 year warranty for around 13k is FAR better than what MMR has to offer.
 

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