New member Boss302 GB - pics and track video - and a question!!!

[Bill Pemberton]

Not disagreeing that suspension changes will not help the car, but still think folks need to get used to the car, and tires and some items will make one go faster than jumping right to suspension. Keep in mind the tune was done by the Ford Engineers to somewhat mimic the M3 ,and they have always had body roll and some dive, it is the rate of recovery that many forget to factor in.
The stock suspension is pretty darn outstanding, and one can go plenty fast with it , but would sure suggest checking out tires and brake pads first -- just my personal priority list. We do a tremendous amount of suspension work at our Dealership and frankly the improvements seen are alot more dramatic with the more sophisticated systems , but they tend to be more expensive, of course. Many folks find they are going to track events less than they originally visualize and they regret getting into a stiffer set-up when they only track occasionally, but they drive everyday to work.

 

[DD GT3 RD]

Thanks for the input BILL. I agree but for me it is not necessarily about going faster but enjoy the car's handling more. I was having trouble with a bit of understeer on the Mazda turn at buttonwillow. Thought I would have fun if the car had a little more oversteer. Maybe an alignment on the stock suspension is enough for that but then I did think there was a little bit too much body roll.

And yes stickier rubber would make me faster but I think it would magnify the current issues.
And with brakes I'm just worried about brake squeal when daily driving. Had that prob in my GT3, was hell. Think was beyond loud

 

[PeteInCT]

As usual the Forum has your answers. No, really ! ;D

1) The understeer is totally eliminated by making a couple of changes. Many forum members have done all or part of the following:
a) Install camber plates, Maximum Motorsports or Vorshag. You'll get anywhere from -2.0 to -2.3 degrees camber offset.
b) The stock tires are not really usable on the track. My opinion is that the a 40 series sidewall up front is too tall and the stock Pirelli's are just too "bouncy". I run Nitto NT-555-RII's 285/35 up front and 305/35 on the rears, all on 18" wheels. No understeer, great rear end rotation, excellent grip out of the turns. Shocks set 5 up front and 4 in the rear BTW.

2) Brake Pads: Use Pagid RS-29's up front and RS-56's in the rears. Great stopping power, excellent wear characteristics and no squealing on the street. I use RS-14's up front which are a little more aggressive than the 29's, and although they are very quiet they can chirp a little when cold. The trick with the Pagid's is to just bed them on properly.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Pete beat me to it.................MM camber plates in front and Hoosier R6s and problem has disappeared. Have run Buttonwillow and frankly the two tracks I normally run are quite similar ( flat and yet technical ). I have very few issues at all , the plow is gone, neutral with just a nice controllable bit of oversteer, good hookup with shocks at three in the rear and five in the front, but......recommend Carbotech 8s in the rear and 12 or 20s in the front instead of Pagids ( American made pad , by a family just a mile North of Charlotte Motor Speedway ).

The stock tires are only black donuts that hold air, keeping the car in an upright position over asphalt. Plenty of smaller things to do , prior to splurging on a suspension set-up.

 

[PeteInCT]

Ahem, I guess Carbo's are OK if you like a little brake fade and like having to warm up your brakes before you really need 'em ;D

(PS: The RS-56's are made here in the US. Can't say the same for RS-29's).

 

[DD GT3 RD]

You guys are AWESOME!!!!

Finally some frickin frackin answers!! Thank you so much for the input and help guiding me in the right way. Maybe Ill just do camber plates first, get an alignment and see how that does the trick!

 

[VoodooBoss]

From what you've described installing the P springs is still the first thing I'd do.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Honestly just swap out the front brake pads at the track, it doesn't take long. Oh and that being said, Performance Friction PF01!!!

 

[DD GT3 RD]

From what you've described installing the P springs is still the first thing I'd do.

I always thought changing a spring was not the way to go, from what Ive been told the shocks are made to work at certain heights and when you use lowering springs it changes it...When I was on the phone with the guy from Kenny Brown he also said something to that effect

Now maybe the FORD Racing springs (Ford Racing M-5300-P, you meant these I think) are made to work with the cars shocks and dont have as drastic of a drop as some of the others?

didnt Ford leave the rear of the car up high because they said lowering like they did the front in comparison to the GT made turn in more difficult?

On a side note, I dont know anything im just hearing different things and trying to learn

 

[PeteInCT]

Oh, another guy who likes buying rotors ! ;D

The RS-29 has been the pad used on Audi's wins at LeMans for years running! The RS-59 was developed in the US specifically for NASCAR use. Once you go Pagid the other's just run ragged! ;D

 

[VoodooBoss]

The RS-29 has been the pad used on Audi's wins at LeMans for years running! The RS-59 was developed in the US specifically for NASCAR use. Once you go Pagid the other's just run ragged! ;D

I'll install mine this Sunday.

DD, FR stated the P springs will be fine with the stock Boss dampers. They do not have a huge drop like other springs and drop the rear 1" and the front approximately 1/4". They do reduce brake dive and body roll though. Not saying they are the answer for suspenion on our cars but they do improve the handling without destroying the streetability. Frankly my car now feels more like how I expected it to be from the factory. (Think more Porsche like )

If you're going to be in the Sacramento area anytime soon you're welcome to take my car for a spin and check it out.

 

[fduboss302]

DD, followed your post on m3post back in the day and another Boss forum asking where to get technical help. Nice driving and warm welcome extended, but what took you so long to get here? ;D

Do you by any chance drive your car in the El Segundo area every now and then?

 

[DD GT3 RD]

The RS-29 has been the pad used on Audi's wins at LeMans for years running! The RS-59 was developed in the US specifically for NASCAR use. Once you go Pagid the other's just run ragged! ;D

I'll install mine this Sunday.

DD, FR stated the P springs will be fine with the stock Boss dampers. They do not have a huge drop like other springs and drop the rear 1" and the front approximately 1/4". They do reduce brake dive and body roll though. Not saying they are the answer for suspenion on our cars but they do improve the handling without destroying the streetability. Frankly my car now feels more like how I expected it to be from the factory. (Think more Porsche like )

If you're going to be in the Sacramento area anytime soon you're welcome to take my car for a spin and check it out.

Thank you for the offer! I wish I was closer.

 

[DD GT3 RD]

DD, followed your post on m3post back in the day and another Boss forum asking where to get technical help. Nice driving and warm welcome extended, but what took you so long to get here? ;D

Do you by any chance drive your car in the El Segundo area every now and then?

Not really, been thru once or twice since I have had it.

Thanks, 5 DOT 0 got me here! I owe it to him! Thank god, cause I couldnt find any help till now!

 

[fduboss302]

DD, so some of us are probably curious to know. How does the car stack up at the track compared to your past rides? C63, E92 M3, etc...

 

[DD GT3 RD]

DD, so some of us are probably curious to know. How does the car stack up at the track compared to your past rides? C63, E92 M3, etc...

RS4 I never got to track but try some canyon driving it had severe understeer problems. I ended up putting on ohlins coilovers and Hotchkis sway bars which completely transformed it. The slowest in a straight of them all. Great gear box, smooth as butter. Could put it into gear with 1 finger. Steering was a bit light but was progressive an would stiffen up

M3 - fantastic car! Boss is similar in handling characteristics. But there is no question the M3's suspension can absorb bumps better and keep the wheels planted Thru bumpy canyon roads a bit better. I prefer the steering in the boss, the m3 felt a bit electronic and fake. First car I tracked, took it 3 or 4 times. Very well balanced, remember it having less understeer than the boss. I ended up putting the car in the SEMA auto show got hooked up on a bunch of stuff, wheels, KW V3, exhaust, supercharged - made about 600-650hp and trapped 123mph in extreme heat.

GT3 997.2 - you have heard it all. Spectacular. The gearbox is like a rifle bolt, firm and precise, heavy clutch which I loved. Car felt like it was made from a single piece of steel. Rigid! Suspension did everything well. Exhaust awesome, I did a full muffler removal and the sound was unbelievable!! But was extremely loud so after a month I took it off and did a center muffler removal (has 2 sides and a center muffler), this was beautiful, loud but not too loud. Traction from the Rear engine was impressive, and definitely took some learning how to drive but only tracked it a couple times. I sold it as it was a bit expensive for me and the brakes did just SQUEAL they SCREAM LIKE a DYING ANIMAL. The sound was hell.

Here is a video of the GT3 full muffler delete: not sure why they put music in but skip halfway ahead and they take it out...you can hear the car for blocks!!!! The end you get it best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD7k7Kttce4&list=UU4tqBdGYU-ap6S9Qg8CE2WA&index=71&feature=plcp


C63 P31 (power package, lsd) -MB claims 481 hp, they dyno around 420whp so prob more like 500hp Fast, 60-130mph in 9.79, my GT3 did 9.65. TOO HEAVY, front end pushed so much, understeer all day. Small tires, 255 in the rear, couldnt put the power down well enough but then engine had such a beautiful torque curve it made it easy due to the smoothness. What an engine! I think the boss would be right in between this and the m3 in a straight line. Tracked it a bunch, Stock ran 1:39 at Big Willow, and 2:12 a Buttonwillow C13. Great steering, better than the M3 imo, you could really feel what the front tires were doing. Great brakes as well, the M3's biggest weak spot, things would fade after 2 laps. The tranny in the Benz would overheat (limp mode) at Buttonwillow after 3 laps on hot days and I would have to take a cool down lap or pull off for a little.

 

[sadil]

Carbotech says on their website that all of their XP pads cant be street driven due to noise and dust? Anyone tried?

 

[PeteInCT]

They are correct, however it varies by pad and car. I have not done it with my Boss since I only run Pagid pads, but with my Audi TTS (AWD, 3200 lbs) I tried XP-10 up front and XP-8 in the rears. They were not acceptable for street driving. I don't know if the Boss would be any different.