New to track days - Brake suggestions/advice needed

[GoinDrivin]

New to track days and looking for advice/suggestions. My car: '05 Mustang GT aside from intake/tune/exhaust only mod is ST XTA coilovers, MM bump steer, and adj. panhard bar. Current tires are Sumitomo HTR ZII in 275/40x18. Did my first track day (SCCA Track Night) last month on the stock brakes, new pads, and fresh fluid and have another coming up w/in the next 2 weeks. I'm in the process of installing Brembo 4 pistons, new rotors all around, Goodrich lines, and Motul RBF 600 fluid. Also setting up brake ducting for cooling. Have the Motive power bleeder for the flush. Also purchased the FORscan and OBDII adaptor. Just want to get any advice/thoughts on the setup. My couple questions are: I was thinking of doing the Hawk HP Plus pads since I do drive to the events and occasionally on the street - should I buy different pads and change them at the track? and the other question is (lack of knowledge coming out), when doing the FORscan to flush the ABS, will I need to repeat the process at each corner is if just the fronts? All advice and suggestions are appreciated and I continue dipping my feet further into this. After this next track day I'm also planning on going to a 200TW tire. Thanks!

 

[Ewheels]

Welcome to the community and the track-life addiction!

I can't speak to your Forscan question but as far as brake pads, I would advise against the HP+ pads. They really cannot handle track temps. I personally use G-Loc R12/10 pads and I drive to and from the track. They do dust and make a fair amount of noise but the wear rate when driven on the street is nothing substantial. They are a great double duty pad. I used to swap pads and rotors for events but got tired and lazy. I leave my track stuff in all the time now (though my car is not my daily).

Others will chime in here too, but speaking from personal experience, tires will by far make the most difference. I would look to getting those 200tw tires sooner than later.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Not to stop you from spending money on parts, but....
Safety?? Do you have the safety blocks checked? Helmet, belts/harness, gloves taken care of? Hans is also a good thing to grow towards.
I have had good luck with Pagid brake pads. If you run the same pads on the street and track expect brake dust. The better performing the pad, the more dust created, in general.
As EW mentioned, the best bang for the buck is found in tires. As sticky and as wide as rules allow with gain the most performance per dollar. 305's all around were the big boy exception when I started doing this. Now, its fairly common. Second best investment will be seat time and or seat time with a GOOD instructor.
Be safe, have fun and Welcome to the site!!

 

[GoinDrivin]

Welcome to the community and the track-life addiction!

I can't speak to your Forscan question but as far as brake pads, I would advise against the HP+ pads. They really cannot handle track temps. I personally use G-Loc R12/10 pads and I drive to and from the track. They do dust and make a fair amount of noise but the wear rate when driven on the street is nothing substantial. They are a great double duty pad. I used to swap pads and rotors for events but got tired and lazy. I leave my track stuff in all the time now (though my car is not my daily).

Others will chime in here too, but speaking from personal experience, tires will by far make the most difference. I would look to getting those 200tw tires sooner than later.

Pumped to dive in deeper. I'll check out the G-Locs. Since the car is rarely driven on the steer that may be the way to go. Obviously avoiding a dedicated race pad since I will be driving to events, at least for now. Tires will be on before the next event. Do you swap tires at the track? For the most part I'll typically be w/in 2 hours of the track. But I did see people swapping at the event. If anything it keeps the miles down and no chance of damaging while driving to the event. Thanks!

 

[GoinDrivin]

Not to stop you from spending money on parts, but....
Safety?? Do you have the safety blocks checked? Helmet, belts/harness, gloves taken care of? Hans is also a good thing to grow towards.
I have had good luck with Pagid brake pads. If you run the same pads on the street and track expect brake dust. The better performing the pad, the more dust created, in general.
As EW mentioned, the best bang for the buck is found in tires. As sticky and as wide as rules allow with gain the most performance per dollar. 305's all around were the big boy exception when I started doing this. Now, its fairly common. Second best investment will be seat time and or seat time with a GOOD instructor.
Be safe, have fun and Welcome to the site!!

Oh, safety is key. This year I picked up a new Bell SA2020 helmet and gloves. Rollbar, seat, harness, and Hans device have already been shopped for and planned. Racing motorcycles in the past I don't like to skimp on safety gear.
I know some are running up to 315s and ultimately I'll go to a different wheel (currently running a square 18x10 setup). And as you said, I'm just trying to plan more seat time and definitely want to do an event with an instructor.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Oh, safety is key. This year I picked up a new Bell SA2020 helmet and gloves. Rollbar, seat, harness, and Hans device have already been shopped for and planned. Racing motorcycles in the past I don't like to skimp on safety gear.
I know some are running up to 315s and ultimately I'll go to a different wheel (currently running a square 18x10 setup). And as you said, I'm just trying to plan more seat time and definitely want to do an event with an instructor.

Cool

I started with a staggered set of Enkei wheels, bought a set of 18x10" Drifts and then moved to Apex wheels. My fifth set of Apex wheels are on their way now. Wont my wife be surprised when they show up. Two sets of 18x11' and three 19x11'. I do save some cash by running takeoff slicks.
Get that seat time with a wise ole instructor and be a sponge. Be safe and enjoy the sport.

 

[TymeSlayer]

G-Locs are a good choice. I'm running R16/R10 on my Boss in HPDE per Tim at OP, a vendor here. Have a chat with him for your particular needs. If you have room, carry and change your tires at the track. Rubber will last longer that way and we all know they ain't cheap.

And as TMSBOSS recommends, check all your safety gear.

 

[Ewheels]

Pumped to dive in deeper. I'll check out the G-Locs. Since the car is rarely driven on the steer that may be the way to go. Obviously avoiding a dedicated race pad since I will be driving to events, at least for now. Tires will be on before the next event. Do you swap tires at the track? For the most part I'll typically be w/in 2 hours of the track. But I did see people swapping at the event. If anything it keeps the miles down and no chance of damaging while driving to the event. Thanks!

I do swap tires at the track. I'm always paranoid I'll catch a nail on the way there and be SOL. If you run street tires, it's not necessary but once you start running slicks, it's either swap at track or trailer the car

 

[Norm Peterson]

New to track days and looking for advice/suggestions. My car: '05 Mustang GT aside from intake/tune/exhaust only mod is ST XTA coilovers, MM bump steer, and adj. panhard bar. Current tires are Sumitomo HTR ZII in 275/40x18. Did my first track day (SCCA Track Night) last month on the stock brakes, new pads, and fresh fluid and have another coming up w/in the next 2 weeks. I'm in the process of installing Brembo 4 pistons, new rotors all around, Goodrich lines, and Motul RBF 600 fluid. Also setting up brake ducting for cooling. Have the Motive power bleeder for the flush. Also purchased the FORscan and OBDII adaptor. Just want to get any advice/thoughts on the setup. My couple questions are: I was thinking of doing the Hawk HP Plus pads since I do drive to the events and occasionally on the street - should I buy different pads and change them at the track?

A stock-ish power 4.6L car in the hands of a novice probably doesn't need quite as much pad as what an advanced-level driver with a 5.0 car. Either Carbotech is XP12/XP10 or G-loc in R12/R10 should be enough for now. Don't worry too much in advance about outgrowing them; you'll most likely wear them down below tech inspection requirements first (50% friction material thickness remaining).

HP+ pads and street driving is an unreasonably abrasive combination (your rotors will hate you). Never mind how I know this. Even the 12-level pads mentioned above are far gentler on rotors, and can be left in place between events as long as you can live with some noise and dust.


Norm

 

[EF1]

This is related, but a little off topic maybe. How do you know when it is time to move up to a higher temp/more aggressive brake pad?

 

[JDee]

This is related, but a little off topic maybe. How do you know when it is time to move up to a higher temp/more aggressive brake pad?

For me, it was when I got to the point that the brakes were just giving up in real hard braking zones to the point that I had to miss apexes to get it woahed down enough to stay on track. For me that occurred when using the TrackDay pads, which are really just a glorified street pad and they would completely give up in hard braking zones even with cooling. Started using real race pads after that and it's been fine since.

 

[Norm Peterson]

This is related, but a little off topic maybe. How do you know when it is time to move up to a higher temp/more aggressive brake pad?

Felt that this was a good enough clue - XP8 pads at just over 50% friction material thickness. They went on the car for my second event. I'm not sure how many events were on them at this point but I wasn't going to ask them for "just one more".




Norm

 

[TMSBOSS]

Norm, Agree. Would I try to "Stretch" a set on the rears??? Maybe. Front?? NFW.
The standard of using all the friction material like you do on the street is a non-starter (Stopper) on the track. You may get away with it....until you don't.

 

[Ewheels]

Norm, Agree. Would I try to "Stretch" a set on the rears??? Maybe. Front?? NFW.
The standard of using all the friction material like you do on the street is a non-starter (Stopper) on the track. You may get away with it....until you don't.

Is this because with less than 50% pad material, there is less thermal mass to absorb heat and then make it more likely to over heat pads?

 

[Dennis DiLucente]

GoinDrivin,

I have had good success with Race Technology TS-20 pads. Here is an interactive chart that permits some brake pad comparisons: https://www.racetechnologies.com/brake-pad-comparison

My 2012 Boss is a daily driver that is driven on 200 treadwear RE-71s to the track with a Brembo 15 inch, 6 piston GT brake Upgrade. The six piston upgrade was expensive but "I have never run out of brakes" and feel we are competitive during HPDE events with some overly expensive automobiles. We also use the Motul RBF 600 fluid and run the FoMoCo cooling ducts.

Good luck distilling all the good information above and think about some instructor lessons early in your "Track Career" which should provide a good driver skills foundation to build upon.

Dennis DiLucente

 

[ncpeds]

I ran HP Plus front pads with stock calipers my first time at VIR and ruined my brand new DBA rotors. It was a really hot day and I didn't have any front brake cooling at that point. Lesson(s) learned! Love my GLOC pads... with brake cooling and Brembos, etc....

 

[GoinDrivin]

Thanks for all the info. RBF 600, Motive bleeder, and FORscan adaptor arrived today so I can get the new brakes and lines installed and fresh fluid in. I'll admit I wasn't aware about all the pad options and the fact that running too strong of a pad up front and stock-is pad in the rear throws off the brake balance and front what I understand overworks the fronts. You guys are a wealth of knowledge. Hoping to get pads ordered this week and fab up the brake ducting. Looking a brake cooling backing plates. I know Vorshlag makes some. Found some by Blowfish as well. Seems like a good way to direct air from the hose into the center of the brake rotors. Coming from a motorcycle track/racing background the focus was pads but I get with a big, heavy car the rules change. LOL

On another note, do people switch over to ARP wheel studs? That was recommended to me as well.

 

[EF1]

Thanks for all the info. RBF 600, Motive bleeder, and FORscan adaptor arrived today so I can get the new brakes and lines installed and fresh fluid in. I'll admit I wasn't aware about all the pad options and the fact that running too strong of a pad up front and stock-is pad in the rear throws off the brake balance and front what I understand overworks the fronts. You guys are a wealth of knowledge. Hoping to get pads ordered this week and fab up the brake ducting. Looked at the Vorshlag duct covers - gotta pay to play, huh? I'm looking at options there. Coming from a motorcycle track/racing background the focus was pads but I get with a big, heavy car the rules change. LOL

On another note, do people switch over to ARP wheel studs? That was recommended to me as well.

Yes, the ARP studs are highly recommended for track use. If you have ever seen a car come off track missing a wheel with the studs sheered off you will understand why.

 

[ncpeds]

ARP studs are relatively cheap and super easy to install. Street cars really take a beating on the track- and considering that curbing is track high strength wheel studs are a no brainer.

 

[Norm Peterson]

On another note, do people switch over to ARP wheel studs? That was recommended to me as well.

Absolutely do the switch. Track duty puts more tightening cycles on them than street duty, and if any single stud does fail, the rest are apt to follow in zipper-like fashion. Been there, unfortunately.


Norm