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Newbie advice

38
57
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Colorado Springs
I feel like a total idiot. I never checked/noticed the tire sizes that came on my car. I only ran one track day with them and felt the car handles ok. I felt it was on the edge of losing the rear on a few occasions but it never did. Anyway I looked today and it has 255 40r 19s all around. To make matters even worse one of the 9.5 inch rear wheels is on the front.
I’m assuming with relatively stock suspension I should go back to staggered with the 285s out back?
 
418
432
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Snowy North
Don't feel bad...a very well known car mag installed the Ford Perf track suspension kit on their 2016 S550 at an equally well known Ford dealership.

Took the thing to Laguna Seca...ruined the new set of track tires and encountered generally weird handling.

As they say in the NFL..."upon further review", seems that the front wheels and rear wheels found the wrong ends of the thing. At a very reputable dealership.

Oooops.

In terms of your path forward...go back to 255F and 285R...unless it's time for new tires....rims...spacers and extended wheel studs. Can you feel the gravitational pull of that deep, dark rathole :D???
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
6,400
5,275
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
First, congratulations on your car control, and second thanks for your honesty and ability to laugh at yourself. We have all been there and done very similar things but I would make your first purchase four new ( or used ) wheels squared. Heh, you already know the 9.5 inch ones fit on the front , so go that route with some bigger rubber -- you could be dangerously fast without having to worry where each wheel goes, ha.

Thanks for giving all of us a laugh, tonight, and I don't have enough space to write down all the similar things I have done while at the track!
 
296
256
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Lenoir City TN
I feel like a total idiot. I never checked/noticed the tire sizes that came on my car. I only ran one track day with them and felt the car handles ok. I felt it was on the edge of losing the rear on a few occasions but it never did. Anyway I looked today and it has 255 40r 19s all around. To make matters even worse one of the 9.5 inch rear wheels is on the front.
I’m assuming with relatively stock suspension I should go back to staggered with the 285s out back?
That is why I run the same size wheels/tires all the way around. It doesn't matter what corner of the car I put them on. It is just one less thing to worry about.
 
38
57
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Colorado Springs
“First, congratulations on your car control”
Thank you for the compliment but not losing it is easy when you are not going very fast! :rolleyes:
I decided to just replace the back 2 with 285s and at the same time get the rims sorted out. After I get more track time I’ll look at wider and square. I’ll never be fast, but I will be smoother and more precise. The most fun I had on the bike was on my small supermoto at about 75% and being smooth with the lines right. Used to embarrass the sport bikes on what is essentially a dirt bike because it was so much faster in the corners.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
6,400
5,275
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Heh, you never know because it often seems the guys who are the fastest are the ones who aren't mainly concerned about speed but more concerned with technique, hitting their braking zones, slicing through the corners, and nailing their apexes. Before they know it they are passing the guys who just drive by the seat of their pants, but have no focus. There are some fun guys in your State on this site, hope you meet up with some of them and hope to see you at the Fast Fords and Mustang Roundup in September of this year --- Hastings , America.

www.racemph.com ( just repaved )
 
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134
106
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Colorado Springs
I'd like to get there sometime for the event. Not sure how I get the car and the camper there at once. Wife isn't ready for the "I need to sell the camper (that she loves) to get a car hauler + camper" discussion.
Heh, you never know because it often seems the guys who are the fastest are the ones who don't care completely about speed they are concerned with technique, hitting their braking zones, slicing through the corners, nailing their apexes, and before they know it they are passing the guys who just drive by the seat of their pants, but have no focus. There are some fun guys in your State on this site, hope you meet up with some of them and hope to see you at the Fast Fords and Mustang Roundup in September of this year --- Hastings , America.

www.racemph.com ( just repaved )
 
38
57
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Colorado Springs
We have talked about going to Hastings this year. My wife is totally on board, being a mustang fanatic herself. I don’t think we could get the mustang on the track though. I have no way to trailer it out and that’s way to far to break something and then try to get back home.
I can’t say I am looking forward to 400+ miles each way in the Boss either. It’s noisy and gas mileage sucks but it probably wouldn’t be appropriate to show up in our F Type either even though it’s a much better car to travel in.😁 So we will suck it up, put in some ear plugs and drone our way out and thoroughly enjoy it once we get there.
 
79
120
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Wisconsin
Welcome to palm to face racing. We have all been in this club at one point. I will be right with you come spring. New car to me that I am testing out. Sold me GT350 last fall. Looking forward to learning and growing as a driver.

That in the end is what HPDE is all about. Seat time, a big ass smile and learning your "race" craft.

Bad ass car by the way to start with!
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
6,400
5,275
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Bhf, there are plenty of folks who have driven to Hastings from equal distances in their Mustangs, run and then driven home. It is the sense of adventure and since you have a wife who loves Mustangs too, it becomes a trip you will always remember as she can run too -- in a separate heat. Cmon, I know TMS and I will buy you each a beer, and the newly paved track should be easy on tires.
 
38
57
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Colorado Springs
So I made it to PMI in Pueblo last Sunday. First session I had forgotten how to drive the track. Fortunately it wasn’t crowded because I was sloppy and all over the place. It was also cold and the drag strip especially was slippery. First pass at speed I came onto the front straight in the left lane in 3rd and as I got on the gas it broke lose. From then on I went down the rubber free middle. Anyway I came out of session one upset with my driving and sloppiness determined to stop that crap.
Session 2 I focused and reacquainted myself with proper lines and felt much better. 2:05 best and consistent lap times. I also followed a guy in a GT350 and could hang with him. He would pull me on the front straight but I’d real him back in under braking. (A better driver would have left me.) My telemetry app failed on the session so I don’t know what the times were but I know they were faster.
Session 3 I went out focused and pushing harder. It had warmed up some and my crap tires were getting hot. I was sliding everywhere. One lap coming out of the dip before 7 onto the right hander I had a slide off into the dirt. I carried in to much speed and we just slid off sideways. No problems but that was definitely the limit for traction. This session I was pretty consistent in the 1:59s. But I knew I’d have a hard time improving on that as much as I was sliding.

Overall the car just doesn’t feel planted. Some of it is tires. Some of it is driver. Some of it is it’s a heavy pig with street suspension. When I’m doing my job it’s fun. When I’m not it frustrating. Totally new learning experience. I don’t want to go to much deeper down the throwing parts at it rabbit hole but wheels and tires are probably in its future.
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
6,638
3,803
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Illinois
A good set of tires and wheel will really wake up the Boss. for a 10 year old car with a straight axel they handle well. What condition is the suspension in?? 10 years is a long time for rubber components.
Did you have any issues with engine heat?
 
38
57
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Colorado Springs
The suspension is new. Koni sport (yellow) shocks/struts with Steeda springs. .2 lower front and 1.5 lower rear. I had the front full stiff and the back at about 80% on the adjusters. No heat issues anywhere. Vorshlag air dams on the front brakes. No dust plates all around. “S” grill. Plus it wasn’t a real hot day. Maybe 60 tops.
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
6,638
3,803
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Illinois
Nice!!!
The deflectors are a good second choice for the S197. They work well on the S550 where the factory directs air "Near" the brakes. The S197, not so much. As you improve, brake ducts will likely be in your future. Watch for brake fade and early wear in your pads and rotors.
With the improvement you made without changing any parts. I would not recommend changing anything now. Get more seat time. I know...It sucks going to the track, making runs, talking to other track rats (Lying about your best times) on a beautiful weekend. But hey....this sport requires dedication. A weekend where your slow and fast runs (Without Traffic) are close will tell you its time to consider throwing more money at the car. Until then, convert money into noise and have fun. A good instructor will speed up the process.
 
418
432
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Snowy North
That's a lot of rebound (esp @ the front) on any surface....hot, cold, wet, dry. Could cause loose rear on turn-in/entry and would very likely cause some degree of push, center-off esp in slower corners where you'd like to get to the gas early+hard.

Sounds like a bit of a handful - not planted - esp when exiting dips where gravity packs down both ends of the thing in the middle of the dip...and leaves you with Heaven knows what for balance/traction when exiting/unloading from the dip ;).

Damper settings and Koni yellows...read Dennis Grant's "Autocross to Win"....lots of good material there. Good rule of thumb for yellows or Steeda pro-lites...try to maintain a window between +0.5 to +1T from full stiff if you've got the springs/tires for it. Crazy divergence/rapid damping force increase if you go tighter than ~0.5T from full stiff. Sounds like ~1 to 1.5T could've been the ticket for your tires and track conditions

Try starting @ +1T from full stiff next time and work the +0.5 to 1T window if you get new tires....yellows work pretty well if paired with decent spring rates....even on something as strong as 19x11 305/30 GY Supercar 3Rs. Otherwise try +1 to 1.5T and see if that settles the thing down.

Good luck!
 
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4,388
4,785
lol.. there's been more than one pro team that have mixed up wheels/tires or both on a pit stop. This is why there are marks all over the wheels to designate front/ rear/left and right when you're in a hurry
 
38
57
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
Colorado Springs
Thanks for the input. I’ll back off the front next time out. “Dip” is probably a misleading term. There is a downhill section followed by an uphill leading into a blind right hander. I slid off on the flat after the uphill just over cooking it on slippery tires. They were probably over inflated somewhat as well. It had been cold in the morning and by then was warming up fast. I had been letting pressure out all morning and was try to keep them around 35 hot. After the second session I started out at 35 and when I came in I had 45 front and 50 rear.
I’m blaming a lot on the tires so I don’t have to blame my otherwise spectacular driving.🤪
 

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