Newbie - GT350 wheel set on 2020 GT PP2?

[quikcolin]

Hey guys,

First post here, as the forum came highly recommended by a fellow member.

I have a 2020 Mustang GT PP2, and I plan to run multiple track days each year. In the spirit of saving myself time, I'd like to buy a 2nd wheel set that's dedicated to track use. Mounting my PS Cup2's in 305/30/19 (all four corners). I'm looking for something that I don't need to do anything to. Meaning, I have a set of wheels on the rack in my garage. The day before the track event I simply pull my OEM PP2 wheels and pop on the trackway wheel set (That's obviously been balanced). I don't pretend to know much at all about this stuff. When someone tells me I need to add camber, and spacers, I honestly don't really know what they're talking about.

The way I see it, with my very limited research - the two best options are as follows:

1.) Buy a used set of GT350 OEM wheels in 19 x 10.5" and 19 x 11" (which is the same wheel configuration my car comes with in PP2 trim). I was hoping you guys could confirm that these GT350 wheels will fit on my PP2 without any issues, or adjustments (spacers, etc.) needed? I have found a set of GT350 wheels with the TPMS for $900 USD.

2.) A squared set of Apex MS10 wheels in 19x11" all around. This is a more expensive option, however... These are $700 per wheel up here in Canada.

I'm a regular "just want to have fun" at the track kinda guy, so I'm not sure if the square setup will make much of difference for me, since I'm running 305's on all corners whether I'm running square wheels or staggered?

All your input, advise and help is greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
Colin

 

[TMSBOSS]

Colin

Welcome

The advantage of a square set up the ability to rotate tires at will. Some tracks wear tires differently than others. The ability to rotate front to rear or side to side may save you money and avoid loosing track time when you burn through tires which could have lasted longer if rotated. Longer studs and spacers are needed along with identical tires and wheels.

$2800 for wheels alone is painful. Any possibility you can travel to Detroit or another city down below and save some coin??

 

[67GTA]

Welcome to the site!

Part of keeping it fun and simple going forward requires a bit of planning up front. Fun and simple usually requires getting the most bang for your buck as you progress, and with tires being the most expensive consumable, the initial investment in the right setup EASILY pays for itself by the 2nd set of tires.

The biggest limitation with the staggered setup is you can’t fully rotate wheel position. You can swap left to right on the front and rear, but you can’t swap front to rear. The impact of full rotation can nearly double the lifespan of a set of tires - that’s huge at $1500+ USD per set

The initial challenge of a 19x11 square setup is the mods needed to run them in the front. This requires a hub centric spacer to move the wheel out, so the tire doesn’t rub on the strut body. To run spacers safely, it requires longer wheel studs. Most would argue that even without spacers, the studs are an inexpensive safety item for cars on track and should be changed regardless.

Which brings us to camber. Either setup will require more negative camber than stock. Without addressing camber, you will quickly wear out the outside shoulders of your front tires. The Vorshlag camber plates are bulletproof, easily adjustable and with their modular design they will work with your future strut mods if you decide to go further down the rabbit hole (which is likely!).

Lastly, don’t get hung up on running the Sport Cup 2’s. They’re an amazing tire, but there’s better priced options for developing driver mod. The 305/30-19 size in the BF Goodrich Rival S 1.5 is hard to beat, bang for the buck. They are very sticky, but stay consistent through a 20 min HPDE session. Easily double the life of SC2’s and Goodyear SuperCar 3R’s. Also, consider the GY SuperCar 3’s (not 3R’s). They’re listed as a 220TW tire, but they easily hang with any of the fast 200TW tires on a road course and have great lifespan.

To sum it all up, if you just want to swap wheels and track it, and easily convert it back for street, no problem. And you don’t necessarily need to know the how’s or why’s of camber, etc. But find someone that can do these couple simple mods up front, and enjoy the hell out of the additional seat time while stretching your consumables budget.

(Different subject but related - have them flush your brake fluid to a high-temp DOT4 while it’s in for camber and studs and you’ll be good to go).

 

[quikcolin]

Thanks so very much for your replies, guys. This is a continued reminder how helpful and tight knit track goers can be. I raced our Canadian regional and national super bike series (motorcycles... yuck, I know haha) for 5 years... I'm now transitioning into car lapping days. Which to be honest, I'm beyond excited about. My motorcycle days have passed. Mustangs from here on out!

TMSBOSS - Thanks so much for your help! I sure wish it was that easy. The border is shut down currently, with inability to pass. Even when they open do things up, our CAD dollar is an absolute nightmare. I think it's around 60 cents? So the exchange is a killer. However, sometimes the exchange, shipping, duties and taxes still make buying in the US more affordable.

67GTA - Can thank you enough for the detailed insight. Beyond helpful! I think my understanding is growing (thankfully I have most of winter to sort this all out). From what you're saying (and I've gathered from another individual via PM) is that I should consider doing the following:

- Add camber plates (-3 degrees) to the front end
- Purchase wheels (the Apex MS10 for example) in 19x11" squared, with a 52 offset (I'm still a little foggy on what offset is, and why I should be using a 52 vs. an 11... etc etc.)
- Install longer wheel studs on the front end
- Install 25mm spacers on the front

Does this make sense to you guys?

Thanks again - you've been a wealth of knowledge!

 

[TMSBOSS]

Yes, a good plan

Longer and Stronger wheel studs. I stick with ARP
Camber plates from Vorschlag are very good. I have MM plates, got a deal, they have not let me down.

Tire rack has a good explanation of offset on their site. Here is a link,
https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tec...610!e!!g!!wheel offset explained&gclsrc=aw.ds
I was in the same boat when I started running my boss. What is offset. stagger, caliper clearance etc. I bought a set of staggered Enkei wheels only to find out once you know stagger, offset, caliper clearance there are different hub bore sizes. Then it was the plastic hub centric adapter rings....BTW they melt on track. Aluminum fixed that. At the time Apex was not selling wheels for my car so I/we did not have the advantage of going to a vendor that knows Mustang wheels and shares the info up front.

Exchange rate near 60....OUCH. I know a guy with a boat on lake michigan. LOL.

 

[67GTA]

Yes, completely agree with the plan. Read up on offset in the link TMSBOSS posted you’ll be good to go! Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

There are a slug of TMO members on here, and quite a few of them are in Ontario. I would suggest you consider posting your car under the new " Build Thread " as it is a fun way to show off the beast. You can put down your experience and introduce yourself there also, as it is a heavily read spot. Pretty sure those fellow Canadians will jump in and introduce themselves in between sucking down alot of beer ---- heh, what else is there to do when it is 2 above 0? I can't say much as it is supposed to be - 2 tonight and -15 Friday night here in the lovely cornfields of Nebraska.

Welcome again to TMO.

PS- you wondered about the spacers and you need them up from to clear your shocks/suspension components. Nothing needed on the rear , but a square set of rims makes it much easier to extend your tire life by being able to rotate often.

 

[JDee]

Welcome fellow locked down Ontarioan, hopefully we'll be out of purgatory this week. Not sure were you live but for anything Mustang, DaSilva Racing in Pickering can likely get it, Mustangs are all they do. Good outfit to deal with, Joe DaSilva and all the staff are great especially Cassius the order guy, he knows his stuff. Mechanics are quick and do good work, did a very fast turnaround on my Exedy clutch and 10 quart oil pan this past summer. I find it easier now to just let them deal with bringing the stuff in from the US most of the time, though some places like Summit make importing from the US a breeze. But there is that dollar thing for sure. Dismal.
Hopefully will run into you at a track day this summer.
As for your wheel issue, OEM wheels are usually heavy AF!! I would get aftermarket 19X11's and run them square, that way you can rotate them and they wear much nicer and you will save much money in the long term. You'll need a 20-25mm spacer up front, nothing out back. That's what I do and it just works. Anything I can help you with just ask.
Oh yeah, LMR sells 19 X 11 wheels for the Mustang at great prices and they are light, mine are 21.5 lbs if I remember right.... I've been running them without issue, I'd have a look at their wheels. They are very Canadian friendly.

 

[Arknsawchuck]

Hey there, read through all the statements and it left me confused. Like the OP I to have a PP2 and was thinking along the same lines he was. Get an extra set of wheels and tires for the track since I only go a few times a year. If the GT350 wheel setup is the same as the PP2, 10.5 x19 et24 front and 11x19 et48 back why would we need longer studs and camber plates? I get the whole rotation thing with squared setup but I've noticed several tires are directional so that doesn't allow for a normal tire rotation. Right? New to this whole track deal since we don't have one here in Arkansas. Best we get in autocross. Thanks for any info.

 

[JAL racing]

Just realized what I posted was already mentioned

 

[TMSBOSS]

If you do t want to rotate from to rear, no need for studs and spacers.

BTW, there is a track opening in Arkansas this year.

 

[JAJ]

Hey there, read through all the statements and it left me confused. Like the OP I to have a PP2 and was thinking along the same lines he was. Get an extra set of wheels and tires for the track since I only go a few times a year. If the GT350 wheel setup is the same as the PP2, 10.5 x19 et24 front and 11x19 et48 back why would we need longer studs and camber plates? I get the whole rotation thing with squared setup but I've noticed several tires are directional so that doesn't allow for a normal tire rotation. Right? New to this whole track deal since we don't have one here in Arkansas. Best we get in autocross. Thanks for any info.

So, the GT350 rims are 19x10.5 ET30 and 19x11.0 ET62. Compared to the PP2 rims, the fronts mount 1/4" closer to the strut and the rears sit 9/16" further inboard.

GT350 rims might work on a PP2, but it's worth checking the space behind the wheels to make sure there's room, particularly at the rear. The front is probably fine, but the rear hub area on a GT350 is built a bit differently than the GT. The shocks are different and the handbrake is very different. The GT350 rim might run into something in the back of a GT that's not there in the GT350. Or it might be fine.

 

[Arknsawchuck]

So, the GT350 rims are 19x10.5 ET30 and 19x11.0 ET62. Compared to the PP2 rims, the fronts mount 1/4" closer to the strut and the rears sit 9/16" further inboard.

GT350 rims might work on a PP2, but it's worth checking the space behind the wheels to make sure there's room, particularly at the rear. The front is probably fine, but the rear hub area on a GT350 is built a bit differently than the GT. The shocks are different and the handbrake is very different. The GT350 rim might run into something in the back of a GT that's not there in the GT350. Or it might be fine.

Thanks, didn't know the GT350 wheel size. That 62 for the rear may be to much. I'm not really sure how much room is left with my stock wheels. Need to do some measuring I guess. The fronts should be fine especially if I drop to a 295 tire. Thanks again.

 

[bnight]

Can someone explain to me the side to side rotation on Asymetrical tires with wheels only as I just can see it happening on the track ? So if you still need to remove tires to rotate them better safe yourself the trouble of spacers etc.