No Brake Pedal

[Lee Sorrell]

I just completed upgrading the brakes on my 2013 GT. I installed Power Stop rear calipers and 6 piston Brembo calipers, from a 2016 PP up front. I also installed SS braided lines and a Hurst line lock.

I am bleeding the brakes with a Motive Power Bleeder, in the usual sequence (rr,lr,rf,lf) and have probably bled about a litre of fluid through the system. On the Brembos I am starting with the outside bleeder and then doing the inside. I cannot get any pedal. When I pump up the brakes, the pedal sinks to the floor.

I hooked up the pressure bleeder and pumped it to 5psi and waited about 5 minutes to see if it would lose any pressure. It held up fine, so I did the same thing at 10psi and 13psi. At 13psi, I left it sitting for about 10 minutes and the pressure did not change.

I feel relieved that there are no glaring leaks in the system. I had the Brembos powder coated and had concerns about the seal at the lines. Everything looks good and dry.

So, can I take this as a sign that I just need to bleed the system more?

I have an ELM327 and FORScan, so I am thinking about trying the electronic bleeding procedure, as well as bleeding the ABS system... Has anyone done this? I found a video on YouTube, but have a question or two.

 

[Coz]

Assuming you no longer have any air bubbles coming out of your lines when you are bleeding them the only other thing that I can think of for why your pedal would sink is the master cylinder has failed.

As far as bleeding the ABS, see:

ABS bleeding tool

I was doing some brake work and got air into the ABS, my local tire shop had a ABS bleeder tool, took about 5 minutes to hook it up, run it and out the door. They did it twice but it still did not feel right, like just 1 air bubble stuck in the ABS unit. I took the car out on a rainy day and did...

trackmustangsonline.com

 

[302 Hi Pro]

OP:

Tell us more about the Hurst Line Lock. Type & P/N as not all can be used with ABS.

 

[Lee Sorrell]

It is the vehicle specific "kit" from AM

Hurst Mustang Line Lock Roll Control Kit 5671519 (10-14 Mustang GT, V6) - Free Shipping

FREE SHIPPING! Line Lock System. Roll-Control Packages better know as a line lock system allows the driver to lock up the front brakes while letting the rear wh

www.americanmuscle.com

 

[Norm Peterson]

Assuming you no longer have any air bubbles coming out of your lines when you are bleeding them the only other thing that I can think of for why your pedal would sink is the master cylinder has failed.

Master cylinder was my first thought as well.

Could there be some problem with the line lock or its hookup? It's the only other thing in your system you touched that actively does anything. I'm just trying to point you in a possible direction here, as I don't know much about line locks except what they're used for.


Norm

 

[JAJ]

I just completed upgrading the brakes on my 2013 GT. I installed Power Stop rear calipers and 6 piston Brembo calipers, from a 2016 PP up front. I also installed SS braided lines and a Hurst line lock.

I am bleeding the brakes with a Motive Power Bleeder, in the usual sequence (rr,lr,rf,lf) and have probably bled about a litre of fluid through the system. On the Brembos I am starting with the outside bleeder and then doing the inside. I cannot get any pedal. When I pump up the brakes, the pedal sinks to the floor.

I hooked up the pressure bleeder and pumped it to 5psi and waited about 5 minutes to see if it would lose any pressure. It held up fine, so I did the same thing at 10psi and 13psi. At 13psi, I left it sitting for about 10 minutes and the pressure did not change.

I feel relieved that there are no glaring leaks in the system. I had the Brembos powder coated and had concerns about the seal at the lines. Everything looks good and dry.

So, can I take this as a sign that I just need to bleed the system more?

I have an ELM327 and FORScan, so I am thinking about trying the electronic bleeding procedure, as well as bleeding the ABS system... Has anyone done this? I found a video on YouTube, but have a question or two.

When you had the brakes apart, did the brake fluid reservoir drain down empty? If so, you've got air in the master cylinder and the ABS.

 

[Lee Sorrell]

When you had the brakes apart, did the brake fluid reservoir drain down empty? If so, you've got air in the master cylinder and the ABS.

No, I kept a close eye on it. I really didn't want to have to bench bleed the MC and ABS valve.

 

[JAJ]

No, I kept a close eye on it. I really didn't want to have to bench bleed the MC and ABS valve.

Hmmm... Well done! It's an easy problem to have, let's just say. However, something else just occurred to me - you have an S197, correct? There's a specific bleeding procedure for new rear brake calipers that involves applying and releasing the hand brake a number of times while bleeding. Apparently bubbles get trapped in the parking brake mechanism and this is how you get them out. I don't have that procedure available any more, but I used it on my GT500 when a caliper needed replaced, and it worked.

 

[Lee Sorrell]

Hmmm... Well done! It's an easy problem to have, let's just say. However, something else just occurred to me - you have an S197, correct? There's a specific bleeding procedure for new rear brake calipers that involves applying and releasing the hand brake a number of times while bleeding. Apparently bubbles get trapped in the parking brake mechanism and this is how you get them out. I don't have that procedure available any more, but I used it on my GT500 when a caliper needed replaced, and it worked.

I haven't heard of this, that makes me optimistic! Thanks for the lead, I will research ASAP!

 

[Lee Sorrell]

I wasn't able to find much; but I am at work today, so will do a better search when I get home...

I was able to find a link to the image below, on another forum (ME).

 

[67GTA]

These are from the Ford service manual:

 

[Lee Sorrell]

These are from the Ford service manual:

View attachment 14968View attachment 14969View attachment 14970

Yeah, I didn't do any of that! Thank you, this is most helpful.

 

[Corral Man]

Yeah, I didn't do any of that! Thank you, this is most helpful.

I did the Forscan ABS service bleed on my Boss 302. Here are the steps:

ABS bleeding tool

I was doing some brake work and got air into the ABS, my local tire shop had a ABS bleeder tool, took about 5 minutes to hook it up, run it and out the door. They did it twice but it still did not feel right, like just 1 air bubble stuck in the ABS unit. I took the car out on a rainy day and did...

trackmustangsonline.com

 

[Lee Sorrell]

I did the Forscan ABS service bleed on my Boss 302. Here are the steps:

ABS bleeding tool

I was doing some brake work and got air into the ABS, my local tire shop had a ABS bleeder tool, took about 5 minutes to hook it up, run it and out the door. They did it twice but it still did not feel right, like just 1 air bubble stuck in the ABS unit. I took the car out on a rainy day and did...

trackmustangsonline.com

It's been a long weekend... I do not have the "ABS Service Bleed" option available in ForScan. I was able to reset the module (not sure if that helped) but that was the only option I had for ABS.

And of course, since I said I was very careful before, to not to let the mc run dry; I got distracted and let the pressure bleeder run dry on the last caliper (LF). Bone head move, i don't want to talk about it... lol

So, I reset the ABS module a couple of times and bled the heck out of it again, but it's not great. Better than when I first wrote the first post, but it's obviously not right. One thing I noticed now, the mc makes a noise, when I press the brake pedal.

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Does the pedal go to the floor at a steady rate?? By this I mean does the pedal "Pump Up" or does it steedily go to the floor when held down?

You may have had the misfortune of loosing the MC at the time you were doing other work on the system. Uncommon but possible.

 

[Lee Sorrell]

Does the pedal go to the floor at a steady rate?? By this I mean does the pedal "Pump Up" or does it steedily go to the floor when held down?

You may have had the misfortune of loosing the MC at the time you were doing other work on the system. Uncommon but possible.

I can pump it up and it will hold pressure, before gradually going to the floor. I drove it down the (very empty) street and tried to engage the ABS, but it just didn't seem like could apply enough pressure to do so... no matter how much pressure I built up by pumping the pedal

 

[Coz]

Sounds like a bad MC. Take the MC reservoir cap off and if you have someone else in the house, have them come out to the car and press on the brake while you look inside the reservoir. If you see swirls or bubbles as they press on the brake then that probably confirms it.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Yep. If it “Leaks Down” the master cylinder is likely gone.

 

[OX1]

These are from the Ford service manual:

WOW, that's a crazy procedure. Not so much removing caliper, but forcing piston in and out that far,
over and over.

 

[Lee Sorrell]

Well; purchased a new master cylinder, should be here Friday. Any thoughts on why bleeding the ABS module isn't an available option for me in ForScan? I only used it once before, when I swapped my guage cluster a year or so ago... maybe i need to update it?

Thanks again, for all of the help!