No rear sway bar

[Roadhouse]

I searched around on here and didn't find any posts about first-hand experience running with no rear sway bar. I know KB and MM don't run rear bars on some of their setups but they are usually using a full system with coilovers and other fun stuff, so I wasn't sure how my basic setup would react to removing it. I had my car out at Hallett this past weekend and decided to pull the rear sway bar after driving Centri5.0's car (no rear sway, watts link) a few weeks prior. My car setup is H&R race springs, Koni adjustable shocks/struts, adjustable UCA, adjustable LCAs and relo brackets, MM adjustable PHB, -3 degrees of camber, square 305/645/18 Pirelli slicks, and stock GT front sway bar.

Overall I was very pleased with how the car performed with no rear bar. The car did have a tendency to push more than it did with the rear bar installed but the understeer could easily be combated with some throttle application. Once I got on the throttle (I could do so much earlier now) coming out of a corner the rear just stuck and pulled the car right through the corner with very little/no push. I was nervous that the car would understeer really bad once once I was on the throttle but that was absolutely not the case and I went faster than I've been at this track. This might not be the best setup for everyone but it worked for me and I thought I would share my experience in case others were considering doing the same thing. I know Mark (Centri5.0) and I will be leaving ours off for good. Here's a video of the car: (disregard me mowing the grass at the end, wayyyyyy too much speed into that corner )

[youtube]http://youtu.be/epwSCc7pptw[/youtube]

 

[WinterSucks]

Ouch! Any damage? How do the H&R springs compare to P springs? There does seem to be plenty of roll stiffness even tough your front sway is stock. Ijust installed a Strano front but need to test.

 

[Roadhouse]

Ouch! Any damage? How do the H&R springs compare to P springs? There does seem to be plenty of roll stiffness even tough your front sway is stock. Ijust installed a Strano front but need to test.

A few cuts on my left front tire where it compressed up against the fender, but that's it. I was just happy I didn't break my splitter supports as I've already broken 4 of them this year and I just installed a new, beefier set prior to this event.

The race springs are much stiffer and lower than the P springs and I think it suits the car better on track. The added stiffness of the springs is most likely working in my favor now that the rear sway is gone.

 

[WorldFamousZ]

I tried removing my rear sway once, and drove it around town where I live. We have a lot of roundabouts in our city. I wasn't happy with it at all, the rear end felt soooo sloppy to me. It felt like the rear axle was going to just up and leave the car and go its own way. Lol. That was before I swapped lower and upper rear arms so perhaps now it would be a different story.

 

[Roadhouse]

I was afraid mine would feel like that too. I think the key is to have a high enough spring rate to handle the lack of rear sway bar. Or maybe the control arms were a big help, too. Not really sure...

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

I was afraid mine would feel like that too. I think the key is to have a high enough spring rate to handle the lack of rear sway bar. Or maybe the control arms were a big help, too. Not really sure...

Yep, dem springs

Not ballsy enough to try this yet, maybe when I order some other rear springs, though...

 

[dabossinnne]

What are the springs rates for the H&R race springs?

 

[Roadhouse]

What are the springs rates for the H&R race springs?

I've found differing numbers online and on this website so I'm not entirely sure? I believe the fronts are 325 and the rears are either 285 or 385.

 

[pufferfish]

I'm basically on the same suspension, but wouldn't dream of pulling the bar. I am so used to over steering around turns that I fear it would screw me all up. But your observation about being able to power out of a turn does sound feasible and enticing. I have to be ginger taking her out of tighter turns.

My data tells me 285 lb rear, but there really is so much variance on the internet....and I sell them!

 

[2012-Boss]

I'm basically on the same suspension, but wouldn't dream of pulling the bar. I am so used to over steering around turns that I fear it would screw me all up. But your observation about being able to power out of a turn does sound feasible and enticing. I have to be ginger taking her out of tighter turns.

My data tells me 285 lb rear, but there really is so much variance on the internet....and I sell them!

I called H&R earlier this summer and they said the working rate is 325 front and 285 rear.

The working rate is different than the springs progressive rate. H&R defines the working rate as the spring rate in usable suspension travel. H&R said the working rate is basically linear, but if you measured the spring rates in a fixture, you would see a progressive rate starting below the working rate and then exceeding the working rate at coil bind.

H&R stated that they do not provide any data on the progressive spring rate because they believe it makes a true comparison and subsequent selection overly difficult for the end user.

 

[2013dibgt]

Hello,

I don't have a Boss but I removed my factory rear sway and so far I really like how it feels in the majority of driving situations I find myself in. I have a full Cortex XTreme Grip package on the car and it uses 225# springs out back with Penske 7500 Double Adjustable dampers, also (Watts/Torque Arm/Eibach FSB middle setting..etc). Obviously the car is far from stock but my observations may give some idea on what to expect with a similar spring rate out back.

I would say for the remaining 10% of the driving situations I think a small rear bar would be a nice thing to have to help settle the slight body movement I currently feel out back. The only time I notice this extra movement is during higher speeds just before the back end settles when entering a steady state cornering situation. Once the car settles its fine, its just that brief moment before settling occurs where I would say there could be what some may describe as a slight uneasy feeling about what's going on back there. The other situation where I feel a small rear bar would help is during mid corner elevation changes, again at higher speeds. You do get used to it eventually but some may not like the sensation you feel at all.

I can say for sure that I do like the car much better without the factory RSB installed during lower speed, tight radius turns. I think it had too much oversteer for my liking before. Now without the rear bar on the same tight radius turns I can go full throttle just after braking is complete as I am exiting the the turn and the car just plain sticks. No oversteer, no understeer, just perfect!

I am currently thinking about trying either the new Cortex RSB or the Watson Racing Road Race RSB to see how things change in above mentioned situations. I know I want the absolute minimum rear bar I can get my hands on because I don't want to change all the things I like about not having a rear bar. I'm leaning towards the Watson bar because its much less hassle to install but am not 100% unsure if it will play nice in terms of how it mounts up next to the Cortex Watts Link and Rear Lower Control Arm brackets...etc

If I can't get confirmation that the Watson unit will work then I will just go with the Cortex unit since I know that one will work (I'm just being lazy and don't feel like dealing with the welder again) :-[

Thanks for listening

 

[VoodooBoss]

Hello,

I don't have a Boss but I removed my factory rear sway and so far I really like how it feels in the majority of driving situations I find myself in. I have a full Cortex XTreme Grip package on the car and it uses 225# springs out back with Penske 7500 Double Adjustable dampers, also (Watts/Torque Arm/Eibach FSB middle setting..etc). Obviously the car is far from stock but my observations may give some idea on what to expect with a similar spring rate out back.

I would say for the remaining 10% of the driving situations I think a small rear bar would be a nice thing to have to help settle the slight body movement I currently feel out back. The only time I notice this extra movement is during higher speeds just before the back end settles when entering a steady state cornering situation. Once the car settles its fine, its just that brief moment before settling occurs where I would say there could be what some may describe as a slight uneasy feeling about what's going on back there. The other situation where I feel a small rear bar would help is during mid corner elevation changes, again at higher speeds. You do get used to it eventually but some may not like the sensation you feel at all.

I can say for sure that I do like the car much better without the factory RSB installed during lower speed, tight radius turns. I think it had too much oversteer for my liking before. Now without the rear bar on the same tight radius turns I can go full throttle just after braking is complete as I am exiting the the turn and the car just plain sticks. No oversteer, no understeer, just perfect!

I am currently thinking about trying either the new Cortex RSB or the Watson Racing Road Race RSB to see how things change in above mentioned situations. I know I want the absolute minimum rear bar I can get my hands on because I don't want to change all the things I like about not having a rear bar. I'm leaning towards the Watson bar because its much less hassle to install but am not 100% unsure if it will play nice in terms of how it mounts up next to the Cortex Watts Link and Rear Lower Control Arm brackets...etc

If I can't get confirmation that the Watson unit will work then I will just go with the Cortex unit since I know that one will work (I'm just being lazy and don't feel like breaking out the welder again) :-[

Thanks for listening

Great first post and welcome to BMO. Which sway bar do you have up front? Also do you have the street or track Cortex kit? If you have the street how is it on the street relative to how stiff and noisy compared to stock?

 

[F.D. Sako]

I had a similar experience with an 18mm RSB. I didn't remove the RSB, because I dont think the stock spring rates are sufficient enough to handle the rear end alone.


2013dibgt, maybe you can try the stock 05-09 GT RSB for cheap, which is 18mm. Check out this thread for more info.

 

[2013dibgt]

Great first post and welcome to BMO. Which sway bar do you have up front? Also do you have the street or track Cortex kit? If you have the street how is it on the street relative to how stiff and noisy compared to stock?

Thanks and I'm glad to be here. I have been impressed by the content found on this forum relative to others I visit so I figured why not join the party.

I run the Eibach 3-way adjustable FSB up front set to the middle position and am using the Cortex Street Kit.

So far I've been very pleased with the streetability of the Cortex kit. The car is stiff but very tolerable and not harsh at all I feel. All the rod ends out back are very quite surprisingly. Actually the most noisy pieces on the car were the FSB bushings and Strano Endlinks at first but they have since quieted down after breaking in and several doses of SuperLube were applied. I don't really notice the Torque Arm and Watts link in terms of NVH which was a big plus as I was expecting the worst initially.

I'm very happy with my choice in parts and the car is a blast to drive now. I would recommend this kit to anyone.

 

[2013dibgt]

I had a similar experience with an 18mm RSB. I didn't remove the RSB, because I dont think the stock spring rates are sufficient enough to handle the rear end alone.


2013dibgt, maybe you can try the stock 05-09 GT RSB for cheap, which is 18mm. Check out this thread for more info.

Thanks for the info about the 18mm rear bar and I'll take a look at the thread you posted. If its not listed in the linked thread, do you happen to have a source on where I could find that bar? I think I may have read somewhere that its rate is around 100 lb/in. Do you know if that is true or not? If it is, that would be right around where I want to be in terms of additional stiffness added I think.

Thanks

 

[Centri5.0]

Nice recap. I have strano front sway. Fays2 watts set on lowest roll center, steed a competition springs, koni yellows up front and tokico d in rear. Torsen t2r. Pulled rear sway and wow. Car rotates much more predictably under throttle. Gives new meaning to in like a lamb, out like a lion. I do need more spring though.. Following in Roadhouse's footsteps with H&R.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk

 

[Cherno134]

Thanks for the info about the 18mm rear bar and I'll take a look at the thread you posted. If its not listed in the linked thread, do you happen to have a source on where I could find that bar? I think I may have read somewhere that its rate is around 100 lb/in. Do you know if that is true or not? If it is, that would be right around where I want to be in terms of additional stiffness added I think.

Thanks

The order link to the bar is near the bottom of the first page of the referenced post. It is an amazon link to a vendor that sells take off parts. The bar is an 18 mm bar. The Ford part number listed by the seller is 6R3Z-5A772-A. The Ford engineering part number tag on the bar is 6R33-5A771-BB. The tag shows 18 mm on it, and it also measures 18 mm. The part is selling for $69.95 w/shipping included. It's a good price for an almost new Ford part.

 

[Roadhouse]

I'm basically on the same suspension, but wouldn't dream of pulling the bar. I am so used to over steering around turns that I fear it would screw me all up. But your observation about being able to power out of a turn does sound feasible and enticing. I have to be ginger taking her out of tighter turns.

My data tells me 285 lb rear, but there really is so much variance on the internet....and I sell them!

Doooo eeeet My thought was it's easy enough to put back on if I didn't like it. Even between sessions at the track.

On a somewhat similar note, I also removed my front strut tower brace from the car and noticed no difference in handling or stiffness. It's not going back on the car.

 

[Roadhouse]

Hello,

I don't have a Boss but I removed my factory rear sway and so far I really like how it feels in the majority of driving situations I find myself in. I have a full Cortex XTreme Grip package on the car and it uses 225# springs out back with Penske 7500 Double Adjustable dampers, also (Watts/Torque Arm/Eibach FSB middle setting..etc). Obviously the car is far from stock but my observations may give some idea on what to expect with a similar spring rate out back.

I would say for the remaining 10% of the driving situations I think a small rear bar would be a nice thing to have to help settle the slight body movement I currently feel out back. The only time I notice this extra movement is during higher speeds just before the back end settles when entering a steady state cornering situation. Once the car settles its fine, its just that brief moment before settling occurs where I would say there could be what some may describe as a slight uneasy feeling about what's going on back there. The other situation where I feel a small rear bar would help is during mid corner elevation changes, again at higher speeds. You do get used to it eventually but some may not like the sensation you feel at all.

I can say for sure that I do like the car much better without the factory RSB installed during lower speed, tight radius turns. I think it had too much oversteer for my liking before. Now without the rear bar on the same tight radius turns I can go full throttle just after braking is complete as I am exiting the the turn and the car just plain sticks. No oversteer, no understeer, just perfect!

I am currently thinking about trying either the new Cortex RSB or the Watson Racing Road Race RSB to see how things change in above mentioned situations. I know I want the absolute minimum rear bar I can get my hands on because I don't want to change all the things I like about not having a rear bar. I'm leaning towards the Watson bar because its much less hassle to install but am not 100% unsure if it will play nice in terms of how it mounts up next to the Cortex Watts Link and Rear Lower Control Arm brackets...etc

If I can't get confirmation that the Watson unit will work then I will just go with the Cortex unit since I know that one will work (I'm just being lazy and don't feel like dealing with the welder again) :-[

Thanks for listening

Welcome! And great insight on the subject with your setup. I don't have any experience with my setup on a high speed track so it's nice to hear your thoughts.

 

[2013dibgt]

The order link to the bar is near the bottom of the first page of the referenced post. It is an amazon link to a vendor that sells take off parts. The bar is an 18 mm bar. The Ford part number listed by the seller is 6R3Z-5A772-A. The Ford engineering part number tag on the bar is 6R33-5A771-BB. The tag shows 18 mm on it, and it also measures 18 mm. The part is selling for $69.95 w/shipping included. It's a good price for an almost new Ford part.

Thanks for the details on the bar. I just ordered it and it should be here by mid next week. This thing just saved me a bundle .... 8)

I;m looking forward to getting it installed and seeing how things feel as compared to no bar. I'll report back once its all done.