not the usual Ticking coyote thread

[johndouellette]

I recently decided to be a responsible adult and have the oil pump gears & water pump changed on my '12 Boss 302. Car has 75K miles and since I autox a lot, and plan on adding a Whipple next year, it seemed like it was time.

As these things often go, I slid into the "While we're in there" mode and went with the GT500 oil pan & pump kit Ford is selling. I also went with a GT500 water pump and 160 thermostat. Timing chains and tensioners were changed at the same time along with billet crank sprocket from MMR.

A couple of weeks after the work was done I went to an autox event and was having a little bit of trouble making the 2nd to 3rd gear shift. I've had the car for 5 years, and up until that very moment thought I had the MT-82 issues resolved....but you probably know where this is going. I ended up in 1st gear instead of 3rd. Thankfully it's a Boss, and I was shifting out of 2nd early to avoid a gear shift at the finish line. The data logger shows the rpm's hit 7,546rpm. The engine sounded fine after that, and I thought it was ok. Decided to run in the afternoon heat, and again, the motor sounded & ran fine. On my very last lap (#5), GoPro picked up a ticking noise after the finish line as I was slowly driving over to grab my time slip.

Brought the car into my usual shop, and they couldn't find anything wrong. They changed the oil, and i pulled a sample to send to Blackstone (waiting on the results). At this point, the car had not made the ticking noise again.

This last weekend, went to a Porsche Club autox event, and again noticed the noise, but not until i had put in 4 laps. There weren't a ton of people at this event, and we got 6 runs in the morning & 7 in the afternoon.

Here is a link to the video of my 4th & 6th lap.

You'll notice that there is no "ticking" noise at the start of my 4th lap, but can hear it as I slowly roll up to pick up my time slip. Noise is then there again at the start of my 6th lap and at the finish line.

Does anyone have any ideas about what this could be?

 

[KazarS197]

Welcome to TMO! Don't forget to do a vehicle profile. It will auto generate a build thread. I was looking through other mustang forums as saw this may be related to a rod bearing. One guy had a tik that turned into a knock and that's what it was

 

[mwjscn]

When's the last time you changed the AC serpentine belt?

The early design with the tensioner-less 'stretchy belt' is prone to slapping and is sometimes what people refer to when they hear an engine ticking noise. Ford released kit BR3Z-8620-DA which changes the routing to the later Mustang/F-150 style and adds a tensioner with a regular belt. If the provisions weren't machined on the front cover for your build date, you can machine and tap the boss on the stock front engine cover or just get BR3Z-6019-G which includes everything you need finished machined by the factory. May be solved anyways when you move to a supercharged system since they often use those dual-tensioner front covers for their supercharger belt routing.

Issue With Mustang's A/C Belt

Some 2011-2012 Ford Mustangs equipped with a 5.0L engine and air conditioning (A/C) compressor “stretchy belt” may exhibit a light, lower-end knock that is most noticeable when...

www.autoserviceprofessional.com

 

[johndouellette]

Welcome to TMO! Don't forget to do a vehicle profile. It will auto generate a build thread. I was looking through other mustang forums as saw this may be related to a rod bearing. One guy had a tik that turned into a knock and that's what it was

Oops, forgot to mention the rod bearings were replaced when the oil pump & pan were changed. Glad I did, a few were well worn out.

 

[johndouellette]

When's the last time you changed the AC serpentine belt?

The early design with the tensioner-less 'stretchy belt' is prone to slapping and is sometimes what people refer to when they hear an engine ticking noise. Ford released kit BR3Z-8620-DA which changes the routing to the later Mustang/F-150 style and adds a tensioner with a regular belt. If the provisions weren't machined on the front cover for your build date, you can machine and tap the boss on the stock front engine cover or just get BR3Z-6019-G which includes everything you need finished machined by the factory. May be solved anyways when you move to a supercharged system since they often use those dual-tensioner front covers for their supercharger belt routing.

Issue With Mustang's A/C Belt

Some 2011-2012 Ford Mustangs equipped with a 5.0L engine and air conditioning (A/C) compressor “stretchy belt” may exhibit a light, lower-end knock that is most noticeable when...

www.autoserviceprofessional.com

Thanks for the reply with part #’s! I’m the 2nd owner of the car, and that belt hasn’t been changed since I bought the car in ‘18.

While at the race last weekend, another mustang owner also wondered if it could be from the AC. Alternator and idler pulleys were replaced ~9 months ago. With the hood up, the noise did seem most prevalent from the front area.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Belt noises can often be misdiagnosed as engine noise. I would def take these guy's advice and check there first.

 

[Theviking]

I'm no expert but that seems like an awful lot of wear on those bearings. How many miles are on the car?

 

[johndouellette]

I'm not expert but that seems like an awful lot of wear on those bearings. How many miles are on the car?

75K miles. I agree, there was far more wear than we expected. Glad we replaced them while we were in there.

 

[TMSBOSS]

I would be very curious to see what the crank surfaces look like. That is a bunch of wear on the bearings.

 

[johndouellette]

I would be very curious to see what the crank surfaces look like. That is a bunch of wear on the bearings.

The shop that did the work felt the same way and did inspect the crank. They thought the surface of the crank was ok, but I did not get any pictures.

We wondered if it the wear may have been from the amount of autox I've done over the last 6 years. The car has seen ~100 events.

 

[Dave_W]

a few were well worn out

Yikes, that has me worried about my '13 Boss now. The ones on the right seem to all have the worst wear - do you know if that's all cap-side or all rod-side or a mix? I'm guessing the mains looked okay? Did you replace with Ford bearings or go to something like Clevite or King? What oil have you been running? Do you spend a lot of time above, say, 6k rpm on your courses? Sorry for all the Q's but that pic frightens me. I don't have that many events on mine, but I hadn't thought there would be that much wear if it did.

 

[honeybadger]

I'm going to preface this by saying I've been through (3) Voodoo builds - so I have a bit of trauma that makes me extra cautious. So I might be overreacting.

But wear and tear on main bearings like that would be instant rebuild time if it were me. That's a ton of wear and tear. My 230k 94 Miata that lives at redline at the race track had maybe 1/4 of that wear and it's a damn near 30 year old car with its original engine. But I digress.

Wear like that indicates something in the rotating assembly is wrong - clearances have either loosened up, there's been an oiling issue, etc. All of those should be reason enough for a full tear down, IMHO. The fact that the shop you went to just slapped some bearings in and sent ya' off worries me as well.

As for the ticking in the video, that sounds like rod nock to me. I'm leaning towards what @KazarS197 shared - probably a rod bearing going bad. I wouldn't be surprised if it makes more noise once you get the oil nice and hot so it's thinner. There's very little chance you have that much wear and tear on the mains without any other issues elsewhere.


Have you done a leak down test? Wonder how the rings/valve seals are doing

 

[Theviking]

I'm going to preface this by saying I've been through (3) Voodoo builds - so I have a bit of trauma that makes me extra cautious. So I might be overreacting.

But wear and tear on main bearings like that would be instant rebuild time if it were me. That's a ton of wear and tear. My 230k 94 Miata that lives at redline at the race track had maybe 1/4 of that wear and it's a damn near 30 year old car with its original engine. But I digress.

Wear like that indicates something in the rotating assembly is wrong - clearances have either loosened up, there's been an oiling issue, etc. All of those should be reason enough for a full tear down, IMHO. The fact that the shop you went to just slapped some bearings in and sent ya' off worries me as well.

As for the ticking in the video, that sounds like rod nock to me. I'm leaning towards what @KazarS197 shared - probably a rod bearing going bad. I wouldn't be surprised if it makes more noise once you get the oil nice and hot so it's thinner. There's very little chance you have that much wear and tear on the mains without any other issues elsewhere.


Have you done a leak down test? Wonder how the rings/valve seals are doing

I was thinking that looked like an oil starvation issue to me. But would the stock Boss pan not be sufficient on an autocross track? Guess that's why the answer is always Miata

 

[honeybadger]

I was thinking that looked like an oil starvation issue to me. But would the stock Boss pan not be sufficient on an autocross track? Guess that's why the answer is always Miata

I wouldn’t think so, but there’s always a chance there was just an oiling issue for a short while. If it is an oiling issue, I’d want to check the rods and cams too. Oiling issues on a Coyote are really, really destructive.

and Miata is almost always the answer. It’s the perfect backup car to a temperamental, strung out mustang. That’s for sure. Haha

 

[johndouellette]

Yikes, that has me worried about my '13 Boss now. The ones on the right seem to all have the worst wear - do you know if that's all cap-side or all rod-side or a mix? I'm guessing the mains looked okay? Did you replace with Ford bearings or go to something like Clevite or King? What oil have you been running? Do you spend a lot of time above, say, 6k rpm on your courses? Sorry for all the Q's but that pic frightens me. I don't have that many events on mine, but I hadn't thought there would be that much wear if it did.

He mentioned which side, but i don't recall his answer at the moment. Did replace them with OEM bearings, in hindsight wish I had gone with Clevite or Kings. I have a set of Kings on hand if the rod bearings need replacing. Going to replace the AC stuff first to see if that resolves the ticking noise, if it doesn't we'll replace the bearings again.

I bought the car in 2018 with 24K miles on it. I have used Amsoil 5-50 signature in it since I bought it (changed every 3 months or 8 races).

Yes, I do spend a fair amount of time above 6K during events. Probably spend 80% of a lap time in the 4-6K range, and the remaining 20% above 6K.

The car is also my daily, and spends it's days in stop/go city traffic. That type of use combined with ~1000 laps might explain that level of wear for the mileage.

 

[67GTA]

He mentioned which side, but i don't recall his answer at the moment. Did replace them with OEM bearings, in hindsight wish I had gone with Clevite or Kings. I have a set of Kings on hand if the rod bearings need replacing. Going to replace the AC stuff first to see if that resolves the ticking noise, if it doesn't we'll replace the bearings again.

I bought the car in 2018 with 24K miles on it. I have used Amsoil 5-50 signature in it since I bought it (changed every 3 months or 8 races).

Yes, I do spend a fair amount of time above 6K during events. Probably spend 80% of a lap time in the 4-6K range, and the remaining 20% above 6K.

The car is also my daily, and spends it's days in stop/go city traffic. That type of use combined with ~1000 laps might explain that level of wear for the mileage.

E85 or pump gas?

 

[blacksheep-1]

I was thinking that looked like an oil starvation issue to me. But would the stock Boss pan not be sufficient on an autocross track? Guess that's why the answer is always Miata

I hate those cars..
The Boss stuff is sufficient for most applications, in IMSA (then grand am) you were only allowed an .020 overbore, Manley rods and Ford Performance valve springs in the engine, later they allowed a stronger set of oil pump gears, but that was all the mods we could do, The LS Chevies, on the other hand were blowing up left and right until they allowed them a dry sump. So I would say the stock oil pump is fine. The fact that they let you change rods and valve springs indicate they were worried about those items, but keep in mind these cars ran a 50 hour, competition life span, which is about 49 hours and 45 minutes longer than the Subaru engines we came from.

 

[johndouellette]

E85 or pump gas?

It gets the horrible Cali 91 octane. I add a bottle of VP or Boostane for autox events.

I'd like to switch to E-85, but we don't have any gas stations in Santa Barbara that carry it. The nearest stations are at least a 45-minute drive away.

 

[xr7]

I wouldn’t think so, but there’s always a chance there was just an oiling issue for a short while. If it is an oiling issue, I’d want to check the rods and cams too. Oiling issues on a Coyote are really, really destructive.

and Miata is almost always the answer. It’s the perfect backup car to a temperamental, strung out mustang. That’s for sure. Haha

My buddy has a 2020 GT500. On the way to the first autocross of the season he hits a deer carcass. Until the 500 is fixed he will be running a ...........Miata!

 

[2012-Boss]

Your motor is done. You can't just throw bearings in a Coyote and band-aid it like a motor from the 60s. Most likely, you just clearanced something even more with the new bearings. You have an oil starvation issue, a tune that detonated and hammered those bearing to death, or both. Pull the motor, assess what is salvagable, and get started on a replacement.