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Looks like 3 Bosses this weekend; that's the most at a Road Atlanta PDX since the car was introduced. Our last two events were in the rain - I hope we will have good weather this time! I'll be volunteering Saturday and driving Sunday.
Brad - thanks so much for your help out there! Made me proud to be part of this forum, your encouragement and hands on help was outstanding. I was going to ask what the upgrades you were talking about regarding the brakes are but just looked at your signature and that answered my question.
Had a blast out there - got black flagged for passing the yellow Boss on the third lap but I had to do it, not sure what was going on with him.
Btw, did I see you abort before the second session? What happened
Alex, I'm glad you had a good time! Road Atlanta is quite a track to drive; fast and intimidating, but very rewarding. I was happy to provide some support. It was nice to see 3 Bosses and a GT 500 at the event.
Why were you black flagged? Did you pass outside of the designated areas or without a point-by? The yellow LS was a 2 driver car, and ran in both A and B groups. I met the B driver, but not the A driver, so I don't know what his background and experience level was.
In addition to the 911 GT3 spraying coolant all over the racing line from turn 6 to turn 10 during the third lap of my group's first session, there apparently was some debris on the track, including whatever object speared my left front tire. I lost 10 psi between the end of the first session and the start of the second. As much as I like to drive, the notion of knowingly taking defective equipment on track is reckless IMO, both for me and the other participants. I don't consider the fix-a-flat provided with the compressor to be a viable solution either. Accordingly, I packed up my toys and limped home.
I hope you will become a regular at the RA events. It's a great way to drive our cars the way they were intended without getting arrested!
Hey Guys, it's Tyler, the owner of the Yellow Boss LS in question. I was the B group driver and spoke with Brad in between sessions. The A group driver is a very good friend of mine. He came out expecting to ride with me, but after they announced no passengers, I tossed him the keys and said "have at it". It was his first track day ever so that and considering it wasn't his car, he was just taking it easy. I think he was a little uncomfortable even though he was in one of the best cars out there. He ended up insisting that I drive his second session because he just felt out of place. So his instructor rode with me for a lap and then wanted out. They signed me off for group C but the instructor wasn't comfortable with riding with me. He said I was doing a great job but his nerves just couldn't take it.
What kind of speeds were you guys seeing around the back stretch?
My wonderful MT-82 didn't like it so much. After a few laps I guess it started getting hot and even though I was hitting the gates just fine when shifting, it wasn't wanting to go in gear. No sure if it was the trans or if the clutch wasn't releasing all the way. I've got the 2 post shifter bracket and that helped a ton with not hitting the gates, but I wasn't having that problem this time, just wouldn't slide into gear at all when up shifting.
Road Atlanta is a lot of race track for the first time track driver; your friend was smart to be cautious, especially with someone else's car! Little Tally or Roebling Road is a better place to learn what your car is capable of, IMO, but the thrill and satisfaction of driving RA is hard to beat.
Tyler, as to your back stretch shifting issues, how much time have you got? Let me guess; the transmission was locking you out on the 4-5 upshift and (possibly) the clutch pedal felt like it would not come all the way up?
Brad, you Got it right... I was down shifting to 3rd after turn 6, then upshifting to 4th then 5th after turn 7 in the back stretch. I was having issues with both if those shifts which were both around 7500 rpm. My clutch pedal did get stuck down at one point but I just hooked it with my toe & pulled it back up. My car is tuned & holds peak power from 7400 to around 7800 but I shift a little early to stay in the torque better. I would down shift back to 4th after 90% of my braking was done going into turn 10a then down again to 3rd going into turn 10b. Then was holding 3rd up over the hill under the bridge and shifting to 4th going down the hill towards the last turn. I would stay in 4th all the way around the track until after turn 6 (repeat process). I wasn't having trouble with shifting any where except the back stretch but those were both high rpm/high load Situations. I was hitting 140 mph down the back stretch. Car could have gone faster but I didn't have the stones to try turn 9 at any higher speed haha. Any suggestions on fixing my woes, Brad? I Dont think its my shifter...
Well... Technically the guy who bailed was my buddies instructor. I didn't drive it hard with my instructor during my first session because I was learning the track still. By the time the 2nd instructor rode with me I was getting more comfortable with the track & was pushing the car pretty hard.
Tyler, I'll try to keep this short. For starters, here is the central thread on Boss transmission/clutch issues:
I am involved in the discussion in the last few pages.
How many miles are on your car, and how many track days have you attended?
The problem you experienced is a known issue for Mustangs driven at high RPMs. There are 2 components; the inability to select a gear, and the clutch pedal failing to return or returning slowly. This issue was first addressed by Ford in 2010 (TSB 10-19-4), and was treated by replacing the clutch pedal assembly with one from the GT500, which did not have the return assist spring that exists to reduce pedal effort. One can also achieve this result by simply removing the assist spring, an easy process that requires a pair of vise grips, a towel, and about 5 minutes. This addresses the pedal return issue, but NOT the inability to shift gears. Depending on who you speak with, Ford is either aware of the lockout issue and working on a solution (for over a year!), is not aware of a shift lockout issue, or denies such an issue exists at all. The general consensus is that the shift lockout problem is the result of the clutch pressure plate assembly being unable to deal with the centrifugal forces extant in high RPM operation. I personally believe that heat exacerbates the problem, and I believe the slave cylinder may also contribute. The problem seems to appear at high speed, coupled with high RPMs (7000 and above), so is difficult to recreate for the dealer. Since stock GTs are redlined at 6600 RPM, the only cars affected are Bosses and other Mustangs that have been modified to exceed 7000 RPM. So far, the only fix I have heard about is replacing the clutch assembly with a more robust aftermarket unit ($$$).
It is IMPERATIVE that you contact Ford Customer Care (800/392-FORD) and open a case on your problem. Ford will not recognize the abundance of internet conversation on this problem (a Customer Care manager told me as much), and will only respond to contacts with customers through Customer Care. I believe that Ford is not really interested in dealing with the lockout issue because it is not cost effective to address a problem that only occurs in a limited number of cars. I have been dealing with this issue since my car had 17,000 miles, beginning with my 10th track day. So far, Ford's only recommendation has been to remove the assist spring, which I did prior to last weekend's event. Unfortunately, the coolant puking GT3 and my left front tire puncture prevented me from getting enough laps to test for the lockout problem without the assist spring.
Thanks for the info Brad... Your observations and conclusions are the same as my own. I work on these things daily (speed shop) so I have a great understanding of their functionality just as you do. I also feel that there are several contributing factors, but the 3 biggest being the A) clutch assembly, B) slave cylinder/clutch line, C) and just general heating of the components. I have noticed if I push the clutch in and hold it in when the engine is above 7000 RPM and let the engine speed reduce back down while shifting to neutral, the pedal will try to stick down.
My car only has 6600 miles on it, with 3 track days. The other 2 I was able to run completely in 4th so no shifting issues. But I have experienced the problem on the street also.
Since it's not a timed event and NOT a RACE, could Ford refuse to cover such issues anyway? I would gladly make a claim with Ford's customer care, but is it going to cause them to deny my warranty (what's left of it)? The other issue is that unless they come up with a REAL solution, I don't want them putting more stock parts in it that are just going to do the same thing. There's no point.
While we're on the subject of problems with our cars, Brad, do you have gear noise from the rear axle between 60 and 80 mph?
There are aftermarket clutch line solutions available, but no one has shown that they have an appreciable impact on the problem.
Ford has indicated that they will warranty Bosses, even if used on track, providing proper maintenance is done. They have also said they will only address a systemic problem if they learn of it through vehicle owners and the Customer Care center. No one has refused to honor the warranty on my car; the issue is identifying the problem. I agree that simply replacing the existing clutch assembly with the same unit is not a long term solution to the problem. This is why I think it is important that owners notify Ford of the problem. Hopefully, if enough people complain, Ford will offer an uprated replacement.
As to your question about driveline noise, I have not experienced the noise you mentioned. I changed the diff grease after 1 hour of track time, and will do so after Barber next weekend, in accordance with factory recommendation (every 12 track hours). In the interest of maintaining the factory warranty, I only use Ford and Motorcraft fluids.