Oil Cooler Question ???

[VTBoss302]

I could wait until tonight and go measure, but I'm super lazy.

I prefer the term "tremendous slouch"
8) ;D

 

[wwilde001]

Having previously built a car on budget, I have done the same thing previously. Reverse engineer what was out there in order to save money. Now being older and wiser...well maybe just older, there is unseen value in purchasing this as a kit. First and foremost, I find value that Ford spent the time engineering and testing the kit prior to releasing it as a kit. Second, I want to support Ford and it's products for the benefit of it's US employees and US suppliers. Third, Ford put this together as a kit for the people that wanted an off the shelf solution (time is money, so if I am billing out at $100 an hour, how much money will I really be saving if I spend 10 hours trying to piece a kit together). And lastly, Ford will stand behind their product and provide the support that is needed for any questions or in the event there is a defect in their product.

Remember, the actual product is not the biggest expense, it is the cost to bring the product to market and then provide support for that product. It is not a crime in this country for a company to make money...yet.

 

[VTBoss302]

Having previously built a car on budget, I have done the same thing previously. Reverse engineer what was out there in order to save money. Now being older and wiser...well maybe just older, there is unseen value in purchasing this as a kit. First and foremost, I find value that Ford spent the time engineering and testing the kit prior to releasing it as a kit. Second, I want to support Ford and it's products for the benefit of it's US employees and US suppliers. Third, Ford put this together as a kit for the people that wanted an off the shelf solution (time is money, so if I am billing out at $100 an hour, how much money will I really be saving if I spend 10 hours trying to piece a kit together). And lastly, Ford will stand behind their product and provide the support that is needed for any questions or in the event there is a defect in their product.

Remember, the actual product is not the biggest expense, it is the cost to bring the product to market and then provide support for that product. It is not a crime in this country for a company to make money...yet.

If money were no object, I would have the CoolTech LLC kit with T-STAT...

 

[06mach1]

If money were no object, I would have the CoolTech LLC kit with T-STAT...

Me too! I am going to end up making my own. Just not sure the route I am going to go though. I would like to get rid of the factory oil to water, oil cooler.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Me too! I am going to end up making my own. Just not sure the route I am going to go though. I would like to get rid of the factory oil to water, oil cooler.

Hmmm I see a cooler bracket production opportunity in your future. I'm planning on doing the same thing so a parts list would be nice.

 

[pufferfish]

I thought about a blowfish racing kit, but most of the parts I would have to buy at retail prices and have to mark them up, which is strictly against my business model and what is best for my customers.

The area I can help in is the bracket. I have some wonderful suppliers for sheet metal. Unfortunately, I am at a disadvantage right now, as I don't have my test vehicle. But if someone wants to do the design work, I can have brackets made up. If its simple enough, I would bet a powdercoated steel bracket would be around $50 each if purchased in quantity?

 

[VTBoss302]

Hmmm I see a cooler bracket production opportunity in your future. I'm planning on doing the same thing so a parts list would be nice.

There is actually room for improvement on the CoolTech kit...

Kendall's kit mandates the use of a different oil filter..

Food for thought.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

I think you will need 10-12' then trim to fit.

 

[Jimmy Pribble]

Having previously built a car on budget, I have done the same thing previously. Reverse engineer what was out there in order to save money. Now being older and wiser...well maybe just older, there is unseen value in purchasing this as a kit. First and foremost, I find value that Ford spent the time engineering and testing the kit prior to releasing it as a kit. Second, I want to support Ford and it's products for the benefit of it's US employees and US suppliers. Third, Ford put this together as a kit for the people that wanted an off the shelf solution (time is money, so if I am billing out at $100 an hour, how much money will I really be saving if I spend 10 hours trying to piece a kit together). And lastly, Ford will stand behind their product and provide the support that is needed for any questions or in the event there is a defect in their product.

Remember, the actual product is not the biggest expense, it is the cost to bring the product to market and then provide support for that product. It is not a crime in this country for a company to make money...yet.

This is a really good post and is the same advice that I often give. In many cases, for many parts, it's true. Good grief, I bought the FRPP kitty litter pan! But this is why I am going to do my own:

• The Canton sandwich plate that comes with the FRPP kit does not accomodate my two gauge sensors.
• I want to "Texas size" the oil cooler core.
• My time is precious, but this an easy project and involves things I like to do (like making brackets).
• I wish I weren't, but I'm on a budget.

There are things that Ford makes that only Ford makes. I am happy to buy those things. But this is a kit made-up of off-the-shelf parts and Ford charges a serious premium for putting those parts in a box for us. Their kit doesn't meet my specs and I can't justify the cost. I'm not being defensive; you offered a good perspective and I wanted to give another one. I'll admit that when another BMO member offered the 302S-style engine breather in a kit, I didn't think many would bite, since myself and others had published the parts list and detailed instructions on how to DIY for hundred(s) less. I was wrong and they flew off the shelf. In both of these cases, we are only talking about paying for labor, yours or somebody else's. The parts come from the same place.

Thanks, Arizona. That's what I go, too.

 

[steveespo]

If we can copy the FRPP bracket then there is a wide range of Setrab cooler that can fit it from 19000-96000 btu capacity. Setrab documents show very little pressure drop across the plates and excellent thermal transfer. They are operational to 30 bar (441 psi).

The bracket is really a simple aluminum piece. Coolers come with rubber isolator blocks that sandwich in with 2 screws per side.
There are good quality CNC machine sandwich plates with (2) 1/2"NPT ports for the hoses and (2) 1/8" NPT ports for gauge or turbo oiling use. $40 on ebay. Have one in my car and Oil Pressure has not changed at all flows the same as the Ford Racing part. I replace the Ford textile covered AN hoses with AeroQuip stainless braided -10 hoses and fittings for $175. Used the FRPP hoses as templates for length.
A link for the largest Series 9 Setrab cooler is; http://www.lpiracing.com/Setrab-Oil-Cooler-Series-9-48-row-M22-Ports-1071p25448.htm
The specs are here;
9-series Setrab STD Oil Cooler

HP range Part Number Width (in) Height (in) ∆P (psi) btu/hr range
170-200 50-910-7612 15.94 2.99 6.1/na 19,000-27,000
220-310 50-915-7612 15.94 4.53 4.5/5.2 27,000-39,000
300-400 50-920-7612 15.94 6.06 3.0/4.2 35,000-50,000
400-475 50-925-7612 15.94 7.60 2.6/3.5 42,000-60,000
450-550 50-934-7612 15.94 10.39 2.3/3.3 53,100-72,100
600+ 50-948-7612 15.94 14.70 1.8/3.1 69,000-96,000

Figuring $30 for the bracket, we could do an improved Ford Racing style kit for $850 with the biggest and $450 with the same size cooler as Fords'.

Steve

 

[Boss_302]

This is a really good post and is the same advice that I often give. In many cases, for many parts, it's true. Good grief, I bought the FRPP kitty litter pan! But this is why I am going to do my own:

• The Canton sandwich plate that comes with the FRPP kit does not accomodate my two gauge sensors.
• I want to "Texas size" the oil cooler core.
• My time is precious, but this an easy project and involves things I like to do (like making brackets).
• I wish I weren't, but I'm on a budget.

There are things that Ford makes that only Ford makes. I am happy to buy those things. But this is a kit made-up of off-the-shelf parts and Ford charges a serious premium for putting those parts in a box for us. Their kit doesn't meet my specs and I can't justify the cost. I'm not being defensive; you offered a good perspective and I wanted to give another one. I'll admit that when another BMO member offered the 302S-style engine breather in a kit, I didn't think many would bite, since myself and others had published the parts list and detailed instructions on how to DIY for hundred(s) less. I was wrong and they flew off the shelf. In both of these cases, we are only talking about paying for labor, yours or somebody else's. The parts come from the same place.

Thanks, Arizona. That's what I go, too.

Jimmy,

When I bought my Cooltech Oil Cooler, they were they only game in town.

I only know enough to scare myself if I was to do this DIY.

You mentioned "Texas sized" how does one know if the cooler won't suffer from pressure drop off or if it will flow at the correct rate?

Also what would be the correct line sizes so the line don't cause the aforementioned problems?

I'm going to follow this because I'm not impressed with the filer size (FL400S) on my cooltech setup.

The Greddy remote filter adapter in this cooler kit has a 3/4" x 16 thread.

* The FL400S has a thread size of 3/4" x 16 threads per inch and it's tiny!
* The OME Filter was an FL500S with 22mm threads

The mounting location really doesn't allow for a larger filter, in front of drivers side fender. I also had to cut a flap into the under tray so I could service the filter.

What adapter are you thinking about, filter size and mounting location (for the oil filter).

Thanks Doug

 

[VTBoss302]

If we can copy the FRPP bracket then there is a wide range of Setrab cooler that can fit it from 19000-96000 btu capacity.

steveespo to the rescue, again!!!

VTBoss302
AKA #121

 

[Jimmy Pribble]

Yeah, what Steve said.

I am building mine exactly as Steve and I have described. I already have one of those $40 sandwich plates (Kona Blue!) and I have chosen my core from the Setrabs that Steve listed. The #915 is what is included in the FRPP kit. I will be Texas-sizing mine to the #920. That's not very Texas-sized, you might say. True, but oil coolers are like brakes - you only need as much as you need and then you are just needlessly adding weight and cost. I think I can meet my thermal goals with the #920. If I can, then I have added the least amount of weight to the front of the car and spent the least amount of money (within reason). If I can't, then I will Alaska-size my oil cooler and repurpose the #920, because when outfitted with a Setrab dual-fan kit, it is the same setup that is used for the diff and tranny coolers on the 302R. So, I can't lose by choosing the #920.

As for oil pressure. Well, that's what I have a nice, new oil pressure gauge for. As you can see from the specs, this is still an underrated cooler for the Roadrunner, but since it will be inline with the factory liquid-to-liquid cooler, I'm optimistic.

 

[steveespo]

Jimmy
Just so you know, my oil temp runs at 235-240 all day long with the FRPP cooler in line with the stock one. That is perfect temp, any colder and. You have drag and wear, above 265 you have clearance and thermal stress to both the oil and parts one thing to remember is the oil cools the valve springs which make a lot of heat at high rpm, heat kills valve springs. Think about what happens when you bend a piece of wire back and forth, it heats up and breaks, try it under water, won't break at least not as fast.
Oil cooler=Engine Love.

Steve

 

[VTBoss302]

Oil cooler=Engine Love.

More pearls of wisdom...but a caveat emptor..

It will take a bit longer to get up to operating temp.

 

[pufferfish]

What about a temp controlled bypass? It's a fair amount of added expense, but would be worth it for track/daily driven cars like mine.

 

[steveespo]

What about a temp controlled bypass? It's a fair amount of added expense, but would be worth it for track/daily driven cars like mine.

Use the Boss 302 water to oil cooler, brings oil up to coolant temp on the street. The oil won't get much higher than that on the street without loading the engine anyway. I don't like the thermostatic plates just because the spring is a restriction in the flow of oil even when open. On track oil temps go right up and the additional cooling is mandatory for engine longevity.
Steve

 

[HackBoss2901]

In for the results, oil cooler is on my short list of needs. My oil temp was 285 plus last summer at ECR.

 

[Brandon302]

* The FL400S has a thread size of 3/4" x 16 threads per inch and it's tiny!
* The OME Filter was an FL500S with 22mm threads

If you're going to use the FL500S why not just use the FL820 from the GT500, more capacity.

 

[VTBoss302]

If you're going to use the FL500S why not just use the FL820 from the GT500, more capacity.

Or, even better, the FRPP version(s)...