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Overheating brakes - driver or equipment issue?

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dmichaels

Papa Smurf
547
30
CT
steveespo said:
Yeah I pulled the speed bleeders off my car too Derek, just never felt like I had a good pedal as when I use the 2 person method.
Steve

Good input - I think I'm sold. Just go back to bleeding the old fashioned way. Thanks guys
 
Get a Motive power bleeder, the black label model. It turns into a one man job. The first time I bled the brakes I had my brother sitting in the car pumping and watching the reservoir. Turns out that he could still see blue when it was empty because the reservoir has a corner facing the driver position that traps fluid up high... the power bleeder won't let the reservoir go dry and it pressurizes the system so bleeding is quick. I just need to find out what solvent will clean it and not eat the plastic.

I do have a question about the mushy pedal: from the very beginning I could always hear a pshhh or a whoosh sound (can't think of how to describe it but it sounds like air escaping a narrow opening) when pressing the brake pedal for the first inch or so of travel. Then I would get some braking. I thought maybe it is due to the stock hoses. I accepted it as normal but since you are talking about mushy pedals I figured I would ask. I plan on installing SS lines this year sui I wanted to figure this out if they is some other issue first.
 
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WinterSucks said:
Get a Motive power bleeder, the black label model. It turns into a one man job. The first time I bled the brakes I had my brother sitting in the car pumping and watching the reservoir. Turns out that he could still see blue when it was empty because the reservoir has a corner facing the driver position that traps fluid up high... the power bleeder won't let the reservoir go dry and it pressurizes the system so bleeding is quick. I just need to find out what solvent will clean it and not eat the plastic.

I do have a question about the mushy pedal: from the very beginning I could always hear a pshhh or a whoosh sound (can't think of how to describe it but it sounds like air escaping a narrow opening) when pressing the brake pedal for the first inch or so of travel. Then I would get some braking. I thought maybe it is due to the stock hoses. I accepted it as normal but since you are talking about mushy pedals I figured I would ask. I plan on installing SS lines this year sui I wanted to figure this out if they is some other issue first.

You can use denatured alcohol to clean your brake bleeding tools. Just make sure that you leave the Motive container and lines open so that any residual alcohol evaporates.
 
cloud9 said:
He's saying lighter on the brakes. You start with a high initial braking input, then gradually "bleed" pressure off the brake pedal. It's an interesting philosophy because when I went through Spring Mountain's Level 1 class about 5 or 6 years ago they were teaching more trail braking technique. However, last year when Rick, John and I were at Chuckwalla, Mickey was teaching a "lighter longer" technique somewhat similar to what Spring Mountain is now. Mickey said get on the brakes sooner but let your speed carry you to the corner rather than "late braking". The idea is to not kill the brakes especially during longer sessions or an actual race. Unfortunately I find a way to kill the brakes, tires and just about every other part of the car anyway :p

Funny how the two schools of thought for braking are the exact opposite haha, or at least to me it seems that way.

1. Brake hard and late to prevent "drag gin," which builds heat.
2. Lighter, longer, as mentioned above.

At least according to some of the points in this thread, number 2 makes more sense to me, You have the highest airflow at initial bite to combat the heat but i feel like number 1 is the mantra of braking: the deeper into the braking zone you can go, the faster you are.

i'm a total novice, so it will be interesting to see what they choose to teach at my First track day(s) at Texas World Speedway the beginning of August.
 
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This past months NASA Speed News has an article of braking techniques. The article recommends high initial braking that transitions to lighter braking as you get deeper into the brake zone. The technique emphasizes vehicle stability and entry speed into the corner over short, hard braking.
 
2012-Boss said:
This past months NASA Speed News has an article of braking techniques. The article recommends high initial braking that transitions to lighter braking as you get deeper into the brake zone. The technique emphasizes vehicle stability and entry speed into the corner over short, hard braking.
That's exactly in line with what they were teaching at Spring Mountain.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
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Blair, Nebraska
Would mirror Cloud 9, as that is the way braking is taught at virtually all the schools I have attended ( Bondurant, Miller Motorsports Park, Panoz to name a few ). Hard initial bite and then ease out ----

Have to agree with some of the others about the Hawks -- like steveespo I prefer the Carbotech x24s on front and I just use the 8s on the rear. Great initial bite and then ease off, just like the examples listed!
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
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I have had some lessons with Peter Argetsinger (former pro driver who's dad actually founded Watkins Glen). Peter is BIG on braking technique, and his belief is it is the one thing you can hang your hat on that can make or brake a race (in in the case of HPDE's, lap times). Some things he stressed in his on track sessions:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Late braking alone does not equate to fast lap times
[*]Most important is that your speed is optimized at the point of turn in, how you get there is the key
[*]To do #2 above correctly, especially for cars with less than all-out racing suspensions, they key is to limit the unsettling of the car. In his words, "pretend there is a glass of the finest wine on the dashboard. Don't spill at drop throughout the braking process". This infers very smooth onset of braking (which may be hard braking, they are not opposites) and even smoother release.
[*]In my sessions with him he had me braking a little earlier but lighter. Also, the full release was much longer - A.K.A. go in hotter and trail brake a little more after turn-in.
[/list]

At the end of the day the purpose of all this is to get you car pointed down track sfter the turn earlier and optimize your exit speed. As we all know, it's now how fast you went into the turn it's how fast you came out.

I know this is a bit off topic form the original post. On that topic, no braking technique should be seen as the 'reason' for brake overheating, as there is no god reason for it if you have the proper pads, fluid and ventilation.

-Pete
 

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