Panhard vs Watts Link

[Chris_5ooh]

Hello everyone.
I am driving a 2013 Coyote Mustang which is only used in the summer for fun. So far I have only been on a race track once.
My question to your estimation, if you go to Track Day maybe 1-2 times a year, is a Watts link worth it compared to an adjustable Panhard rod? Or rather, what are the respective advantages and disadvantages in practice?

Thank you and greetings from Germany.

Chris

 

[TMSBOSS]

Chris

Welcome to the site.

If by track you are referring to a drag strip. A watts link is not a good investment. If you are just beginning, the watts link is not the best first investment. Look at improving brakes and safety items first if you are “Tracking” on road courses.

 

[Chris_5ooh]

Thank you.

The bottom line is that I am a sporty road rider who wants to go on a track day (circuit) 1-2 times a year.
I have done Drag Race a few times with my F-150 Lightning .

The question if a Watts Link is worthwhile for 1-2 on a track day, or if you notice it well on the road or if a Panhard stick is sufficient. Both then in connection with upper control arm adjustable and lower control arm fixed.

 

[302 Hi Pro]

What is your current suspension set up. Are you running the OEM suspension? Have you installed lowering springs?

Let us know.

 

[Chris_5ooh]

I have Eibach lower springs. For the future I would change into upper control Arm adjustable, lower control amrs fix with relo brackets. And now the question Watts Link or adjustable Panhard bar for my driving Profile.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I have Eibach lower springs.

Which Eibachs?

For the future I would change into upper control Arm adjustable, lower control amrs fix with relo brackets. And now the question Watts Link or adjustable Panhard bar for my driving Profile.

It's probably best if you change the lower arms and add the relo brackets first. Then just drive it.

Maybe later change the upper, after you've discovered for yourself why - or if - it's needed for your driving. Drive it some more.

On LCAs and the UCA: the less-expensive kind that use polyurethane bushings at both ends . . . not the hot tip for a car that's going to be driven hard through the corners. Leave those things for the straight-line-only guys. Save the lowermost holes on the relo brackets for dragstrip use as well.

Personally, I wouldn't swap to a Watts link unless I could personally identify something specific about the way the car was working with its PHB that wasn't good enough, and that would be fixed by swapping to a Watts link. I have a feeling that as long as your car's handling is composed - think shocks and struts here - that you'll likely end up staying with the PHB.


Norm

 

[docs302]

Chris, there are SCCA National Champions and pro race winners who used a panhard bar with the S197 so if you are just going to track a couple of times per year I don't see the Watts as a priority for better handling and more fun. I think what you are planning so far is a good start but proper brake fluid, pads and tires will be far more important. And as others have said, safety first. Enjoy the car as it's set up now, get comfortable behind the wheel at speed then identify what seems to be holding you back and go from there. Good luck.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Cmon, Blacksheep 1 , time for you to get on here and tell our Mustang friend von Deutschland why he doesn't need any ole Watts link. I lived in Bitburg, Germany for 3.5 years ( just an hour from the Nordschliefe ), as a child, and we need to help this guy out!

Honestly , mein Freund, for 1-2 trips to a road course ( Hochenheimring, Nurburgring, etc. ) I would not bother with a Watts Link at all. The Boss S shown in my listing came built from the Factory without one , and that is good enough for me.

Wilkommen !

 

[TMSBOSS]

Chris

I guess the theme is drive your car after ensuring its safe regarding brake fluids and pads. Then learn the car and the tracks you may frequent. The cold/mod season is upon us, agree. But making changes before you are comfortable with your car may not yield the best results. Watts link....maybe after a few, 10+ events. Now, not recommended. YMMV.

 

[blacksheep-1]

I've been "racin'" I just saw this..give me 24 hours

 

[Grant 302]

My question to your estimation, if you go to Track Day maybe 1-2 times a year, is a Watts link worth it compared to an adjustable Panhard rod? Or rather, what are the respective advantages and disadvantages in practice?

It’s not worth it.
One advantage is feel. Disadvantages or listing them can get pretty technical.

Interesting read:

Blacksheep Hates Watts Linkages

Sticky as requested. :D@blacksheep-1

trackmustangsonline.com

 

[blacksheep-1]

One of the major drawbacks to a Watts is the diff cover, even with the old Foxbody IRS units that used the diff cover as a mounting point, they still leaked. The only way I see to solve that is to have the diff face machined absolutely flat, the diff cover machined the same way, dowel pin it, so it can't move and then bolt it on. If I just tracked the car occasionally, and wanted an upgrade, I would recommend one of the Ford track packs, or barring that great advice, find an aftermarket source and use their compatible system. I would not mix and match parts from different manufacturers. I know the subject of shocks will be coming up soon, so in that area I would recommend the ford performance adjustable shocks, or again, an aftermarket alternative like Koni or Bilstein, I would not recommend coil overs for most applications since decent ones will run you over $5K and they will need rebuilding every 20K miles.. to me, just not worth it.

 

[xr7]

Ducting for the front brakes would be a good idea.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

XR7 is so right, ducting saves so much for the racer, brake pads, brake rotors , and could be even his life.

 

[Grant 302]

FWIW, Fays2 and I think BMR maybe one other vendor...don’t use the diff cover for the center pivot. And won’t have the same leakage issues. But again, technical ones that I won’t begin listing here.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Yeah, well those have plenty of other things like you say, just seems like a gross overthinking of a simple problem.

 

[stevbd]

There are a lot of anecdotal reports that a WL is more stable and has better road manners on daily driving rough pavement compared to a PHB.

I have no personal experience and I understand confirmation bias is a thing. But it's definitely more than just a few comments.

 

[Grant 302]

Yeah, well those have plenty of other things like you say, just seems like a gross overthinking of a simple problem.

Overthinking is better than over explaining. Just saying.

 

[blacksheep-1]

There are a lot of anecdotal reports that a WL is more stable and has better road manners on daily driving rough pavement compared to a PHB.

I have no personal experience and I understand confirmation bias is a thing. But it's definitely more than just a few comments.

This is AJ's post concerning the Watts from the link earlier

Quote:
"
About watt's links. We were told they were the holy grail. but here is our history and thoughts.

In the GA/IMSA CTSC, you had to use the Ford Racing rear lower arms with poly bushings and a panhard rod, we made the car work pretty good there. We bailed on CTSC and started looking at PWC for 2015. In the middle of the switch we rebuilt a car with the PWC stuff, and wing and splitter, spherical rear arms, took it to Laguna for the SCCA runoffs as a back up car, had to use it, and it worked pretty well even with our base "GS" setup.

For PWC we were told you had to have the Watts link to be competitive. So we purchased a car that was for sale that had been strong in GTS, looked at the watts link, did some reading, went testing and ran it back to back with our car at a track that we had never run our car on. Out of the box our car was faster. Our car only got better during the day, while the car with the watts link didn't show much potential after some tinkering. Went home found the diff cover was leaking and bolts had already loosened up and decided along with lack of speed it wasn't worth the aggravation. By the end of the season we were the highest finishing Mustang at 10 of 17 races, and in 5 of the races we were not, we finished directly behind the highest."

 

[2012Boss302]

I think everyone is saying Panhard Rod.......