Radium Fuel Hat/Surge Tank with Two Ti Automotive 274 Pumps Installed

[Equinsu]

So in an effort to help stop fuel starvation issues on road course high speed left hand turns or lengthy left handlers with lower fuel volume, I’m attempting to fix it with this first. I may be led to an additional external surge tank but trying to avoid that since the car is still mainly street driven.

I run E85 on course and street and have a complete Fore L4 kit feeding a Whipple setup. As most know, E85 burns at a higher volume so my tank will be lower in fuel by comparison to gas at the end of a session. The Fore fuel hat that I replaced has a completely open design (no container to hold a certain level of fuel) which doesn’t help fuel rapidly sloshing/transferring to the right saddle on those left handers I referred to earlier. This is what makes most stock pump systems better than complete open systems in road course events. On street the Fore hat was a non-issue for fuel supply even under 1/4 tank level.

Here‘s what the Radium helps in addition. Having a return system is required for this hat which flows directly back into the hat containment and the return line inside the hat has a venturi draw setup that is connected to the right (passive) side of the saddle tank which creates an active draw to the hat/container as well. There is also a large check ball that allows fuel in and closes if fuel tries to work its way out. The return fitting was preset to a -6an fitting but my system has a -8an return line so I changed that fitting out and the last step was transferring over the fuel level sender (not pictured) which was easy to do.

I’ll know if this will satisfy the problem once I get back on track but I can’t see how it wouldn’t be better. I always top off fuel between sessions so I’m full to the hilt at the beginning of each 20/25 minute runs.

Heres the pics.




This is what I replaced.

 

[AdmirC]

That looks nice and clean, are you still using the stock driver to run the pumps?

 

[Equinsu]

I’m using the Fore fuel controller that ran the other pumps as well as the wiring. Very easy change since all of that was already in place. Looking at the Fore hat pic above you can see where I cut the harness at.

 

[Equinsu]

Here's another short article showing the internals and there is a link in it to show the action of the venturi. You can get this with no pumps (add yourself) or one or two pumps as I chose.

Radium Releases In-Tank Fuel Pump Hanger for S197/S550 Mustangs

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Super clean install. Radium makes some nice stuff (they are very proud of it, too...).

 

[aerok]

I am also looking for a solution to road course high speed left hand turns
My Stock Mustang GT starves at 1/2 tank always, is frustrating!

Reached out to Radium Engineering and they have suggested me to get a FST, Fuel Surge Tank, Standard .

Do you guys know if I buy this FST Fuel Surge tank I have to re-do all the lines? am I able to keep any of the lines? none experience doind something like this

I want to keep my car stock-ish
Whats best for me?

Fuel Pump Hanger,2011+ Ford Mustang option
FST, Fuel Surge Tank, Standard option
Both?

Am looking for any insight before I made my purchase

Thanks

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Good info and Capt. Distraction has also addressed this issue and it is a problem most drivers seem to have once they become reasonable fast? The Mustang design of the fuel tank is great for balance , but horrible for fuel pickup on fast sweepers and more. Have lost a couple of races due to fuel getting too low and relying on a pretty inaccurate installed fuel gauge. I know folks will appreciate your efforts to list this information and the Radium set up is very sanitary and though pricey ( as AZBoss mentioned ), it is a less expensive route than going with a fuel cell. Even a fuel cell may require a surge tank , so your info can even come in handy for those folks too. The Captain used the Radium system also, so now we have two members who have shown the benefits of their surge tank install. Another very solid and also high quality system is the Deatschwerks surge tanks out of OK City, OK.

 

[JDee]

The simplest solution for HPDE is to top off your tank before every session. If your car is stock-ish and you want it to live a while you shouldn't be doing more than 20 minutes at full chat and you can easily do that on the top half of the tank. Most HPDEs are a 3 group deal, so 20 minutes per group per hour. I top my tank off prior to each session and no burping.
If you're racing that's a whole different conversation.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Agree, JDee is quite correct, but if you are going to do Time Trials or race wheel to wheel it is a very good idea. Time Trailers like to be close to their weight limit and if figured with a full tank you are okay, but many like to run the tank fairly low for weight issues , so then a surge tank is a solid solution.

 

[Equinsu]

In my case running E85 at the track burns faster and I top off before every session but it still wasn’t sufficient half way through the 20-25 minute run until I switched to this new setup.

 

[JDee]

So I checked your car build. You are running a blower. That changes everything.
All I can offer is a well intended 'good luck'.

 

[Equinsu]

Yes mine drinks quite a bit more with the Whipple and E85 for sure. The Radium has solved my fuel starvation issues which is all I was after keeping the fuel system intact and not incorporating external lines to a surge tank seeing that this car is street driven a lot. I still top off after every session as I’m not looking to see how far I can take it before it happens but for now all good. I just hope this helps others as an option suffering the same problem. Hell the stock fuel hat is better at supplying fuel than my Fore open sock design with no containment area for the pumps.

 

[boardkat]

FWIW this closed hat design was not enough to prevent fuel starve on my 850whp+ TVS E85 setup under 1/2 tank on steady-state left handers into WOT sections (Thunderhill was an eye-opener for me). Plumbing in a surge tank fixed everything. It's where you're gonna end up eventually as you find more speed in the car as your driving ability quickly ramps up the curve

 

[PaddyPrix]

Figure I'd add my findings into this, as I was talking to Radium the other day about this very subject, better here than in my ongoing shitbox breakathon vehicle thread. I'm one of those e85 guys that have grown tired and partially scared of starving on 3/4 of a tank on the common high banked and/or high G turns on our SoCal tracks. I also have an 18+ Mustang, which is return-less in stock shipping form (yes, I'm aware that can change). Not trying to be a sales guy for them, I don't get their commissions or sponsoring.

The Fuel pump hanger is designed to allow the use of multiple aftermarket fuel pumps. While the designs are created with fuel starvation in mind, they are not a true fuel starvation solution. A surge tank is the proper solution.

So I was like, cool. If I'm making 500rwhp, do I upgrade my tank pump? Do I upgrade the surge tank? ... both?

With a surge tank added the pump in the main tank does not supply fuel to the engine. The only job of the in-tank pump is to supply fuel to the surge tank. It runs at little to no pressure. With a returnless system the only tricky part is that you have to supply a port to return overflow fuel from the surge tank back to the main tank. Many opt to use a barbed hose adapter fitting in the filler neck to accomplish this. You do not need to add a hanger. You could, our hanger with the FPR blockoff kit would allow a return for easier installation, but that would be the only advantage. The rest would be extreme overkill.

Photo of our barbed hose adapter is shown below.

So having triple fuel pumps on my Cobra (assuming failure was potential and not wanting a total catastrophic failure), I asked should I get one big pump, or two smaller ones that together flow the desired amount?

The only thing you need to do then is make sure that the in-tank lift pump that supplies the surge tank can flow enough to keep the surge tank full under full load. This is usually 50% of the capacity of the pump(s) in the surge tank.

Choosing your surge tank pump(s) just needs to be enough to support your horsepower. Whether you do this with one or multiple pumps does not matter.
The simplest solution is our FST-R as it is internally regulated so you can still run returnless up to the engine. If you want to do multiple pumps, you'll need to do a multi-pump tank and then you'll need to add a regulator to the system. You can still locate this close to the surge tank and run a short return right back to the surge tank.

So with most people believing that an e85'd 18+ stock fuel system is capable of 650-700rwhp, that should be able to safely supply about 1000rwhp worth of fuel in a surge tank setup, should you put a capable pump in the surge tank. Hope this helps, happy motorings.