Rank the best manual transmissions for road racing the mustang

[twistedneck]

I know there are a lot of expensive Hollinger type sequential setups and G Force H pattern dog boxes, the gorgeous Samsonas Light weight sequential that Chuck Bilodeau got.. then we have the race built T6060 / Magnums and newer TR3160's and then the low end of the racer setup the MT82 Calimer stage 3 straight cut.. I love my MT82 and with low power (under 600 Flywheel) it should be just fine with a wicked clutch.. thinking the poormans tilton - RPS Billet Carbon Twin w flywheel only 26lbs total.

So all of the racers and builders you can think of can you list them and rank what you would do to setup your best durability, lightest weight, and most best shifting long term road racer setup?

Xtrac - tbd on any data
Holinger sequential - only one who has one is Ben Sloss and maybe Cortex
Samsonas sequential
T6060
TR3160
MT82
Andrews A431 available used only (added from Don Lariviere)
Doug Nash (added from blacksheep-1 comment)
HGT Six Speed Sequential (added by honeybadger)

 

[JDee]

The stock Ford clutch on the earlier S550s. It is total junk and will kill the Mt82 under track conditions. After it died I put in an Exedy racing clutch and had the Mt82 rebuilt with the Syncrotech carbon fibre kit. Then I built a cooler for the trans. There were no issues after that. Likely, with proper cooling, a stock mt82 would have lasted longer. I would not push a stock mt82 on track hard without cooling.
If I knew then what I know now I would have invested in a racing clutch first. The mt82 likely would have done better though it still would have eventually died without a cooler.
The Tremec in the Mach 1 seems to be better, but the M1 has a full suite of driveline coolers as delivered so it could be better just because of the cooling.
Past history tells me the most Important thing a Mustang track rat needs to address is driveline coolers.

 

[twistedneck]

The stock Ford clutch on the earlier S550s. It is total junk and will kill the Mt82 under track conditions. After it died I put in an Exedy racing clutch and had the Mt82 rebuilt with the Syncrotech carbon fibre kit. Then I built a cooler for the trans. There were no issues after that. Likely, with proper cooling, a stock mt82 would have lasted longer. I would not push a stock mt82 on track hard without cooling.
If I knew then what I know now I would have invested in a racing clutch first. The mt82 likely would have done better though it still would have eventually died without a cooler.
The Tremec in the Mach 1 seems to be better, but the M1 has a full suite of driveline coolers as delivered so it could be better just because of the cooling.
Past history tells me the most Important thing a Mustang track rat needs to address is driveline coolers.

Hey thanks for the heads up JDee.. i got a real light Spec stage 2+ with mine (got the billet pressure plate option, aluminum flywheel) weighs about 37lbs total vs the 56lbs for my stock cluctch and flywheel. HOWEVER its old, been beat the living hell out of and needs either refurbishment or replacement.. its never killed an MT82, i only re-built y first one because it got loud in gear and the old 'put it in neutral and listen' test it was loud there too.

Is that Syncrotech carbon fiber kit good? is that wat Ben Calimer is putting on? Per his advice i was going to do the straight cut gforce gearset to reduce temperatures.

BUT.. the clutch is $3200 the trans is almost $6000 so we are up to $9200.. getting into the Gforce 4 speed teritory! thats why i'm asking. I don't want the Tremec as that is very heavy.

 

[Dave_W]

If you're doing a blue-sky planning type of thing, the first thing I'd look at is the engine powerband, the desired mph range, and how many gears you need to make those two variables align. Jim Hall did okay using a transaxle based on a two-speed PowerGlide in the Chapparal 2. Can you get away with 4 gears, or is the engine peaky like an F1 car and you need 8? I think that will provide a good first cut on the problem. Generally speaking, fewer gears gives you a smaller, lighter gearbox, with less rotating mass to accelerate & decelerate when shifting.

 

[twistedneck]

If you're doing a blue-sky planning type of thing, the first thing I'd look at is the engine powerband, the desired mph range, and how many gears you need to make those two variables align. Jim Hall did okay using a transaxle based on a two-speed PowerGlide in the Chapparal 2. Can you get away with 4 gears, or is the engine peaky like an F1 car and you need 8? I think that will provide a good first cut on the problem. Generally speaking, fewer gears gives you a smaller, lighter gearbox, with less rotating mass to accelerate & decelerate when shifting.

4 speed is fine i have a 3.10 rear gear and only plan to do mid ohio as the fastest track. That's why i was thinking about a G-Force but that seems like a drag racing transmission and i'll need another new drive shaft.

 

[Don Lariviere]

I really like my Andrews A431, shifts better than the G-Force and Jerichos. You'll have to find a used one, they stopped making them when the nex-gen cars came out. They still make plenty of parts. Howe has used ones for about $14k

A431 Transmission | four speed | Nascar | drivetrain | Gear Ratios| | Andrews Products

A431, A431 Transmission, nascar transmission

www.andrewsproducts.com

Don

 

[Mad Hatter]

Per his advice i was going to do the straight cut gforce gearset to reduce temperatures.

This worked out great for me (for temps). The OEM MT82 would get hotter then the engine. Switching to the stage 3 gears dropped the temps to the 225 range (down from 300!). it would still break, but it would not be melted and blue inside.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Doug Nash 5 speed. Hands down

 

[twistedneck]

This worked out great for me (for temps). The OEM MT82 would get hotter then the engine. Switching to the stage 3 gears dropped the temps to the 225 range (down from 300!). it would still break, but it would not be melted and blue inside.

So in the end you couldn't get the MT82 to live even in stage 3 form.. was that due to power or something else?

Doug Nash 5 speed. Hands down

Is there anything like a kit for this one or do you have to make your own mounts? I assume new Drive shaft, shifter, clutch. That's a straight cut and dog box right ? Making it waay tougher than a syncro trans.

 

[Mad Hatter]

So in the end you couldn't get the MT82 to live even in stage 3 form.. was that due to power or something else?

Its a combination of 500rwhp, sticky tires and shifts at +7800rpm. If I had shifted at say 7250, then it would probably be better for the poor thing. This current Stage 3 rebuild has the 26 spline shaft. So it should be good for a while.

The Cayman GT4 cars I raced with started having lots of transmission failures as well when they switched to Hoosiers from Pilot cups

 

[blacksheep-1]

So in the end you couldn't get the MT82 to live even in stage 3 form.. was that due to power or something else?


Is there anything like a kit for this one or do you have to make your own mounts? I assume new Drive shaft, shifter, clutch. That's a straight cut and dog box right ? Making it waay tougher than a syncro trans.

Originally, they would fit in the lace of most standard transmissions. Their strength lies in their design. Instead of using a 4.111 final drive and an overdrive, you use a 3.55 ( or whatever) and the gearing difference is in the trans, with 5th being direct. Doug Nash was a legend and worked on the 7 liter Fords that ran Lemans, this trsns is a direct result of that. You also get the benefit of lower rear diff heat as well.

 

[honeybadger]

Add HGT Six Speed Sequential - the box is full CNC and weights only like 78lbs. I've been super happy with mine and it makes all the right noises.

Mine was 13k - about 17k all said and done landed in the states (bell housing, shifter, driveshaft, etc.). Definitely not a cheap option, but much more economical than a Hollinger, supposedly better service (no experience Hollinger, just heard this from some FD teams), and can be used without the fancy electronics if you want.

For context, I am doing all shifting blips/lifts manually in this video since we hadn't worked out the shift tuning yet.

 

[Tonymustang302]

Where are you with that

 

[honeybadger]

Where are you with that

yes