Recommendations -- While the Transmission is out!

[BackInBlack]

Getting a stage 2 MT-82 rebuild from Texas Drivetrain Performance for Christmas. Wanted to ask you guys what you think -- what should I have done while we're there?

OK 1st, why did I not do a Tremec? I thought about it. I don't think the 2.97 1st gear would bother me that much, and I am definitely of the camp that believes that the MT-82 1st gear isn't very useful for much other than drag racing. From what I understand, with the Bowler harness everything can work pretty well (although I do wonder about Bluetooth security issues). But I've also heard of people having issues with things like cruise control and it sounds like I'd be married to a custom tune as well. I do plan on getting an AED tune for the car eventually. But if I do a mod that REQUIRES a tune I would want it to be something that increases power.. like E85 injectors or cams or something. I like being able to run the stock tune if I want. I want EVERYTHING to work properly, cleanly, and with a minimal amount of NVH (more than stock OK, but want to keep to a minimum) and for these reasons I chose to stick with the MT-82.

The Texas Drivetrain stage 2 is similar to a Calimer stage 3 I think, except they use AMP gears that are of the same ratio as stock. And since they aren't too far from me, if anything goes wrong I can actually go back to them to work it out as opposed to pulling the transmission and hoping that Calimer will stand behind their work -- which sounds like a gamble from what I've been seeing.

So to the question: While I'm getting the tranny rebuilt, what else should I have done? I see a lot of guys on here who say that if the transmission is out, do the clutch, flywheel and throwout bearing while you're there. Initially I'd planned on doing this but TX Drivetrain said there's no need and that if the clutch was worn that they'd let me know so we can replace it. Sounds reasonable... and from what I can tell the clutch is fine. Then I was thinking I could at least do a steel clutch line (I was thinking the FRPP one). So I went to look at TMO opinions on that and found this thread:

Clutch replacement advice

Ford is replacing my transmission but do to wear and tear will not cover the clutch. It does appear that I need a clutch despite only 26k miles on a street car. So I am looking at either the mcleod ext or super street pro. If the car is going to remain normally aspirated will the super street...

trackmustangsonline.com

It seems like you guys don't think it is necessary unless you have long tube headers? Which I will not be doing. I don't know the difference on this one, I only know that many say that the clutch, "feels" better and I don't mind springing for it if it actually improves performance in some way...

Right now this car is a daily driver. Eventually I'll do some HPDE but I'm not planning to be competitive in this car. Just a trackable daily driver. Naturally aspirated with reliable and streetable upgrades along the way.

I should probably mention why I'm doing this in the first place... My transmission actually works great, shifts great and I have no mechanical issues even though my transmission came from a salvage BOSS. What I do have is transmission whine. Not the loudest I've ever heard but not the quietest either. It's annoying. With the Borla exhaust and the side pipes it is pretty easy to ignore it -- but at this point I'm just going overkill. I want to get this car into excellent shape and this is one of the last things that's bugging me. Yeah, it might last forever even with the whine, or it might blow up eventually who knows but... I just want to get it working right. The MT-82 on the V6 never sounded like this...

 

[Mike_FL]

When I had my Exedy clutch installed I also fitted a braided clutch line, Ford performance pilot bearing, one piece driveshaft and I separated the reservoirs shorty after too.

I’ve spent too much $$$ so I’m stuck with the mt82 for a while too

 

[BackInBlack]

When I had my Exedy clutch installed I also fitted a braided clutch line, Ford performance pilot bearing, one piece driveshaft and I separated the reservoirs shorty after too.

I’ve spent too much $$$ so I’m stuck with the mt82 for a while too

I thought about the driveshaft too ... from what I read it doesn't make a huge difference so I was planning on sticking with the OEM 2 piece for now (which is working fine on my car). The separate reservoir seems like a good idea... people will probably pile onto me on this one but I'm reluctant to do it because I'm reluctant to remove the SOUND TUBE. Yeah, I know. But on this, I had a hard time believing that Ford would waste money on a device whose sole purpose is to pump noise into the cabin, noise that upon removal many people say they couldn't notice any difference. So I spoke to some engineers. I was told that this thing is actually an, "intake resonator" and that its purpose is for PERFORMANCE and not to put sound in the cabin. That it smooths intake air flow by reducing pressure waves that can make the intake choppy... I know most people do this and don't notice a performance hit but... For now I'm leaving the, "sound tube"! If I can do a reservoir without removing the sound tube that'd be perfect though... I may break down and do it anyway eventually.

 

[Mike_FL]

The one piece driveshaft made a big difference for me.
The exedy hyper single clutch also comes with a lightened flywheel but the car definitely seemed to accelerate harder. Less rotating weight.
I had the ford performance driveshaft and it did vibrate over 120 mph but I was going to get it rebalanced but choose to go for a carbon one instead. I would recommend getting any one piece driveshaft balanced again just to make sure before you bolt it in. Just my opinion
My car came with the sound tube but my local mustang specialist removed it on my first visit there. No complaints from me but I do have a jlt cold air intake if that makes any difference

 

[Ledfoot]

I would recommend against the Mcleod RXT. I am replacing yet another MT-82 and believe that the RXT is the biggest reason for the latest failure. It just puts way too much shock on the driveline. The RST should work fine. I called Calimer after I had put this in and they said to get it out of the car that it would tear up the transmission. The transmission lasted about 6 months after that. I am getting ready to replace it in the next couple of weeks with an Exedy 500. If you are set on the RXT I'll have an extremely low mileage set you can buy, lol. I would look at the Mcleod RST or the Exedy 500. The Exedy 500 has a sprung hub on the disc which should further reduce shock on the transmission.

 

[mwjscn]

I was told that this thing is actually an, "intake resonator"

The resonator chamber is on the bottom of the OEM intake tube if you look at it upside down and is a separate device from the sound tube.
You can install a separate clutch reservoir and keep the sound tube. However, that change can really be done at any time and if you're mostly street driving it's probably low in the priority list. If you ever want more oomph out of the sound tube and the vehicle is stock, you can do the old 2011-era trick of taking the foam pucks out of the tube.

 

[BackInBlack]

I would recommend against the Mcleod RXT. I am replacing yet another MT-82 and believe that the RXT is the biggest reason for the latest failure. It just puts way too much shock on the driveline. The RST should work fine. I called Calimer after I had put this in and they said to get it out of the car that it would tear up the transmission. The transmission lasted about 6 months after that. I am getting ready to replace it in the next couple of weeks with an Exedy 500. If you are set on the RXT I'll have an extremely low mileage set you can buy, lol. I would look at the Mcleod RST or the Exedy 500. The Exedy 500 has a sprung hub on the disc which should further reduce shock on the transmission.

If I do the clutch I was planning on a Centerforce dual friction. A little stronger than stock, light on the clutch pedal for traffic jams.

 

[BackInBlack]

The resonator chamber is on the bottom of the OEM intake tube if you look at it upside down and is a separate device from the sound tube.
You can install a separate clutch reservoir and keep the sound tube. However, that change can really be done at any time and if you're mostly street driving it's probably low in the priority list. If you ever want more oomph out of the sound tube and the vehicle is stock, you can do the old 2011-era trick of taking the foam pucks out of the tube.

Thanks, I'll take a look. If the, "sound tube" is in fact a sound tube, I don't care about it. If the intake resonator is something else that would change my mind... but Ford even refers to this thing as an, "intake resonator"...

Ford Mustang Engine Air Intake Resonator. 5.0 LITER - BR3Z6C646B | Lakeland Ford Online Parts, Lakeland FL

Engine Air Intake Resonator. 5.0 LITER, manual trans. Ford Mustang. Genuine Ford Part - BR3Z6C646B (BR3Z-6C646-B). Ships from Lakeland Ford Online Parts, Lakeland FL

parts.lakelandford.com

You know another thing that influenced my thoughts on this, is the combination of these things: This removal of this part is one of the first mods that most Mustang owners do to their cars. Regardless of this, Ford keeps putting them in Mustangs... I know S550s have them... not sure on the S650s...

Edit: I do see that chamber on the underside of the intake hose... This warrants further investigation!

https://parts.ford.com/shop/en/us/e...ngine-air-intake-hose-50l-(6-mt)-p-br3z9b659f

 

[mwjscn]

If you want to get an idea of what the driving experience is like with a sound tube delete without necessarily going through all the effort of taking it out, just pull the tube out of the firewall and place it to the side. It just sits in there, no bolts or other connections. Then if you don't mind it being absent, you can get a delete kit that will more-formally remove it and plug the firewall hole and intake pipe connections. I took the foam out of mine over a decade ago and like the low-end grunt it adds to the higher tones my Corsa exhaust provides, but to each their own on a highly-subjective topic.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Does Texas Performance offer a 26 spline input shaft with their rebuild? If so, going this direction would allow a Tremec swap in the future without swapping the clutch. Just a thought.

 

[BackInBlack]

Does Texas Performance offer a 26 spline input shaft with their rebuild? If so, going this direction would allow a Tremec swap in the future without swapping the clutch. Just a thought.

Yeah they do. Seems like a good option... I guess if I'm going to do the clutch anyway it'd be a no brainer...

 

[BackInBlack]

Does Texas Performance offer a 26 spline input shaft with their rebuild? If so, going this direction would allow a Tremec swap in the future without swapping the clutch. Just a thought.

Hmm it looks like they also offer a, "clutch resplining service". Not exactly sure what this would entail but it sounds like I could keep the stock clutch too...

 

[Stangra]

...If the, "sound tube" is in fact a sound tube, I don't care about it...

I removed mine years ago. I didn't notice a change in sound or performance, but it uncluttered the engine bay. And later I found the firewall grommet location very useful for running wiring for additional gauges.

 

[cholmes1]

FRPP CJ Pulse Ring. Since you have it all opened and are ‘future proofing’ the pulse ring is easy to add with the transmission out. I would also recommend the separation of reservoirs and the steel clutch line. I noticed a modest improvement in clutch feel with the latter two.

 

[Dave_W]

Couple things not mentioned yet -
FRPP high load pilot bearing M-7600-C
Extend the breather line up the firewall a bit, maybe add a catch can https://trackmustangsonline.com/threads/smoke-while-on-track.21099/
You already have the MGW shifter

I think the general consensus here is that the stock clutch contributes to syncro wear in the gearbox under high-load / -rpm conditions. So replacing it even before it's worn is seen by some as a preventative step to protect the gearbox. The Exedy Hyper-Single is the go-to replacement for track guys, and Exedy has less hard-core models. I've had good experience with the Centerforce Dual Friction in a different vehicle, so that's probably not a bad option for more street-oriented or dual-purpose cars. There are multiple reports of the McLeod clutches (RST and RXT) not performing well with the Coyote / MT-82.

 

[BackInBlack]

Couple things not mentioned yet -
FRPP high load pilot bearing M-7600-C
Extend the breather line up the firewall a bit, maybe add a catch can https://trackmustangsonline.com/threads/smoke-while-on-track.21099/
You already have the MGW shifter

I think the general consensus here is that the stock clutch contributes to syncro wear in the gearbox under high-load / -rpm conditions. So replacing it even before it's worn is seen by some as a preventative step to protect the gearbox. The Exedy Hyper-Single is the go-to replacement for track guys, and Exedy has less hard-core models. I've had good experience with the Centerforce Dual Friction in a different vehicle, so that's probably not a bad option for more street-oriented or dual-purpose cars. There are multiple reports of the McLeod clutches (RST and RXT) not performing well with the Coyote / MT-82.

Regarding the FRPP pilot bearing -- I've seen this recommended before so it seems like a good idea considering it's not an expensive part. But I was curious if this part is different from the stock one. Comparing the two, from the photos they do look the same. Also, I see this number stamped on both: DB-75824. The rest of the markings look similar... The Ford part is stamped with, "DYY" whereas the FRPP part is stamped, "FJJJJ"... Just checking -- is this is a recommendation to replace this part with the same one? Or are they actually different?

 

[stevbd]

I would replace the clutch if you anticipate high rpm shifting. The oem clutch is generally considered the leading cause of high rpm lockout on the MT82. You might not care on the street but it is a pain with redline shifting on track. If you want a stronger clutch that is also very light for street driving, you might want to look at an Exedy Stage 4 dual clutch or similar.

I would consider replacing the rear main seal on the engine depending on its history, mileage etc.

 

[Dave_W]

Regarding the FRPP pilot bearing -- I've seen this recommended before so it seems like a good idea considering it's not an expensive part. But I was curious if this part is different from the stock one.

To be honest, I'm not sure if there's a difference, or maybe there was at some point and now they're the same due to part numbers being superceded. If you're really curious, you could call the FRPP tech line and ask, but I'm not curious enough. For the couple bucks difference, it didn't matter to me. But it is one of those relatively cheap "while you're in there" types of things to replace. If you leave the original in and it goes bad in another 20K miles, the labor cost will far outwiegh the part cost of either version.

 

[BackInBlack]

OK, after considering recommendations and running it by my rebuilder, here's my final recipe. I hope the AMP gearset works better for me than it did for @Mad Hatter ! He seems to be the MT-82 expert here so I considered his experiences very seriously. But I've read too many horror stories about Calimer charging full price for warranty service on a newly built transmission. Seen too many videos of Calimer Stage 3's rattling, grinding, and kicking out of gear. Calimer's Stage 1 is basically just a stock+ rebuild... I just don't want to chance getting a bad one and having to take it back off, ship it back, and then try my luck at getting warranty service. TX Drivetrain isn't far from me and I think they'll stand behind their work so that's a big reason why I'm going this way.

Texas Drivetrain Performance Stage 3 Rebuild (AMP Stage 3 Rebuild Kit with 26 Spline Input Shaft)
Centerforce Dual Friction 26 Spline Clutch
Centerforce Steel Flywheel
FRPP High Load Pilot Bearing (M-7600-C)
Ford TOB (BR3Z-7A508-B)
CJ Pulse Ring (M-12A227-CJ13)
J&M Stainless Steel Clutch Hose

Not sure on flywheel bolts yet. I've heard ARP are good but I've also heard that they don't always fit. Will have to figure out what fits...

Thanks for the help fellas. When she blows up ya'll will be the first to know!

 

[BackInBlack]

OK, after considering recommendations and running it by my rebuilder, here's my final recipe. I hope the AMP gearset works better for me than it did for @Mad Hatter ! He seems to be the MT-82 expert here so I considered his experiences very seriously. But I've read too many horror stories about Calimer charging full price for warranty service on a newly built transmission. Seen too many videos of Calimer Stage 3's rattling, grinding, and kicking out of gear. Calimer's Stage 1 is basically just a stock+ rebuild... I just don't want to chance getting a bad one and having to take it back off, ship it back, and then try my luck at getting warranty service. TX Drivetrain isn't far from me and I think they'll stand behind their work so that's a big reason why I'm going this way.

Texas Drivetrain Performance Stage 3 Rebuild (AMP Stage 3 Rebuild Kit with 26 Spline Input Shaft)
Centerforce Dual Friction 26 Spline Clutch
Centerforce Steel Flywheel
FRPP High Load Pilot Bearing (M-7600-C)
Ford TOB (BR3Z-7A508-B)
CJ Pulse Ring (M-12A227-CJ13)
J&M Stainless Steel Clutch Hose

Not sure on flywheel bolts yet. I've heard ARP are good but I've also heard that they don't always fit. Will have to figure out what fits...

Thanks for the help fellas. When she blows up ya'll will be the first to know!

Update. Had a nice chat with a guy at TX Drivetrain. Asked about strength of AMP components compared to stock and Calimer. He reiterated that the gearset is built to be stronger than stock. I could tell that they had respect for the Calimer Geforce components. But ultimately, he said -- and to me it rings true -- that the problem is the design of the MT-82. He said no matter what you put in it if you push it hard it will eventually break. He said that he doesn't recommend trying to build it to add strength as it doesn't make that much of a difference.

I asked about 23 spline vs 26 spline. I doubt I'll ever break my input shaft as @Mad Hatter has, but additional strength wouldn't hurt. Again he said he doesn't think it makes enough of a difference to recommend it. He said that the main benefit is what many say here: upgradability to a T56.

Considering this, the difference between 23 vs 26 spline now becomes, would I prefer the rebuilt transmission to be more forward compatible or backward compatible? With the 23 spline I could return to a stock flywheel and clutch if I wanted to. So I changed my mind. In my case, it'd be more likely that I'd downgrade than upgrade. And in the case that I did decide to do a Tremec one day, I don't think I'd mind so much having to spend a little extra for a new clutch. But I do like the idea of having the ability to put in an OEM flywheel and clutch if I have any problems with this new one.

Additionally, I found that the CJ Pulse Ring is backordered everywhere and it seems it won't be in stock again until next year. My plan is to make all of my purchases during these Black Friday sales. There are some pretty good deals to be had. My rebuild is scheduled for mid-December, so I won't be able to get the CJ ring in time for the install. End result will be this recipe:

Texas Drivetrain Performance Stage 2 Rebuild (AMP Stage 2 Rebuild Kit with 23 Spline Input Shaft)
Centerforce Dual Friction 23 Spline Clutch
Centerforce Steel Flywheel
FRPP High Load Pilot Bearing (M-7600-C)
Ford TOB (BR3Z-7A508-B)
CJ Pulse Ring (M-12A227-CJ13)
J&M Stainless Steel Clutch Hose
ARP Flywheel Bolt Kit (156-2801)

I think it'll work for me. Once this is done my build is complete and my old V6 will be a like-new BOSS 302. After I break stuff in, we'll see what happens!

I still haven't decided what to do with the Whiteline Watts Link I took off. I'm tempted to clean it up and put it back on. Will probably end up selling it on TMO though...

Broke down and put stripes on BTW. Installer messed them up so I have to re-do them. But you can get an idea of how they'll look. 2013 BOSS style matte black on Ford Shadow Black paint. Used pre-cut from ProMotorStripes.com. Seems pretty good quality. I was thinking I might go for the look of an inverse version of Jim Farley's black on matte black BOSS 302...

Happy Thanksgiving all.