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Rising to the competition Boss vs. Z28

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REAL 1

Death smiles at everyone. Army Rangers smile back.
I would like some advice from you guys since many clearly have a lot of track experience. I have a 2012 Boss in CO.

My experience is a 5 day Bertil Ross race school and approximately 10 track days over the last year at tracks like Summit Point, Watkin Glenn, Pocono, Lightning at NJMP and I am an instructor with HOD.

At first I was thinking of selling the Boss for a new GT350 but on reflection I think the Boss is a car to keep for a number of reasons despite the fact the GT350 will outperform it stock vs. stock.

I know the new Z28 is also faster due to its sophisticated magnetic suspension and 305's all around (Its big advantage).

I think the Boss can be made competitive to the Z28 with some mods.

My current mods now are as follows:

Triax Shifter
Steeda trans bushings
Steeda Boss Comp springs
Koni Yellows
Kooks side pipes.
K&N filter

Anticipated mods:
SVE wheels (10lbs lighter per wheel)
285 Pilot Super Sports all around.
Aluminum drive shaft
Kooks LT headers with tune
Tiger hood.
Racaro racing seats
Watson's new 6 point roll cage with side impact protection with rear seat delete.

Also...

I also have H&R race springs new in the box that I didn't put on for ride height considerations and ride quality considerations. Will they be an improvement over the Steeda Boss Comp springs for the track????

I figure 200lbs lighter, larger tires, and about 40 more horses ought to put me right on the Z's butt. I think. While 285's are still smaller I figure the weight advantage will make up for it in both cornering and acceleration. I think anyway. :-\

Any thoughts you guys have would be appreciated.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!
 
Great idea for a topic!

The biggest deficit the Boss has against the Z is grip. So you'll need lots of rubber and upgraded suspension to keep it on the ground. Something like a CorteX Xtreme grip kit with JRi dampers that allows you to run 315 square tires seems like a logical choice. You'll need Hoosier R6 tires or racing slicks as well. From my video you can see the Z is not any faster on the straights so focus on grip and corner exit speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dtb-bGxHdZk
 
NFSBOSS said:
Great idea for a topic!

The biggest deficit the Boss has against the Z is grip. So you'll need lots of rubber and upgraded suspension to keep it on the ground. Something like a CorteX Xtreme grip kit with JRi dampers that allows you to run 315 square tires seems like a logical choice. You'll need Hoosier R6 tires or racing slicks as well. From my video you can see the Z is not any faster on the straights so focus on grip and corner exit speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dtb-bGxHdZk

+1!
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
At a minimum, I think you need to change 2 things on your list. Tires and springs.

305 scrubs on the SVEs have worked for others, or consider 10.5 or 11" wide rims and go for 315s and DOT R-comps.

Then you'll need more spring for that level of grip. H&R or MM Road Race are popular choices and have been paired with the Konis successfully.

With your original plan you might be able to chase down a Z/28 with the power to weight advantage, but you won't hang with it around any turns.
 

gleek48

Tapatalk User
74
2
NFSBOSS said:
Great idea for a topic!

The biggest deficit the Boss has against the Z is grip. So you'll need lots of rubber and upgraded suspension to keep it on the ground. Something like a CorteX Xtreme grip kit with JRi dampers that allows you to run 315 square tires seems like a logical choice. You'll need Hoosier R6 tires or racing slicks as well. From my video you can see the Z is not any faster on the straights so focus on grip and corner exit speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dtb-bGxHdZk

Did he lift to induce that spin?
 
gleek48 said:
Did he lift to induce that spin?
He was way off the apex and ran out of track. He turned the wheel just a touch and that's all it took as he was at the limit. It was an extremely hot day and temps were already mid 90's at about 11:00 AM when that took place. He thought he hit the paint and that caused the spin. Go back and watch how far he is off of the apex cone and you decide. That was a BMO day and we had 8 Bosses there and it hit 108 in the afternoon!

https://trackmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=7385.0

https://trackmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=7892.msg124198#msg124198
 

REAL 1

Death smiles at everyone. Army Rangers smile back.
NFSBoss: Very smooth driving! Nice. The Z28 driver cracked under pressure. ;) Looked like too early on the apex for him and lifted mid correction. Not good but...a lot of us have been there truth be told.

Guys: Thanks for the input.

Oh, yeah, changed the stock Boss pad to Hawk HP pluses at Watkins Glenn. Night and day difference. Huge.

With 305 on 19" SVE's wont the tires stick outside the wheels wells to much?

So you guys think with the larger tires the H&R's race springs are the way to go over the Steeda Boss Comp springs? I just hope the car won't be too low for the kooks side pipes that make the car sound great!

Cheers.
 

cortexracing

Supporting Vendor
42
134
REAL 1,

We have set up a bunch of both street and track Boss 302 cars here at CorteX Racing and it will not take as much you one would think to outperform a Z28 at the track. It's important to focus on a few key areas and have everything working together in harmony. My punch list would include what NFSBoss suggested plus a few other key items

1. The car needs bigger and also stickier rubber but even more importantly it need to be able to efficiently use them. What that means that the camber, toe, and damping needs to be dialed in. We offer a great coil over setup that allows fitment of 305 or 315mm tires that will not stick out. It is based on JRi damper technology and is a true coil over setup both front and rear. With some sticky tires such as Hoosier R6s, BFG R1S or even Nitto NT01s with a 305 or 315 square setup and -3 degrees of camber the car will be on rails. Even if you stick with the 285 tires the alignment will make a night and day difference.

2. CorteX watts link on the rear will stabilize the rear suspension especially on transitions and bumpy section allowing you to push the car much harder without loosing control. That will keep you from spinning if the situation becomes less than ideal like it did for the Z28 driver in the video.

3. CorteX rear lower control arms with relocation brackets. These are critical because the geometry of the rear suspension will be compromised after lowering it and the LCA and bracket restore forward bite. I would also recommend installing drop ball joints in the front for the same reason related to geometry from lowering the car.

4. Don't neglect the brakes. At a minimum I would get some track pads and install Ford Racing ducts. If you want something better consider the Stoptech Spec Mustang brake package we offer that uses 355x35 rotors. They are thicker than other options giving you the same heat capacity as 380mm rotor without the wheel fitment problems. NFSBoss is running those on his car and he can tell you how well they work.

Beyond those 4 recommendations it already looks like you have a plan to address power. The Kooks headers and good CAI will bump power quite a bit. If you want even more consider getting the Cobra Jet Intake and the twin 65mm throttle body. A 1-piece driveline like the DSS unit with the CV joint is perfect and the Tiger hood will reduce front end lift in high speed corners adding much needed front grip.

Let me know if you need any help sourcing parts or want to work out a detailed plan of attack.
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
REAL 1 said:
With 305 on 19" SVE's wont the tires stick outside the wheels wells to much?

Their 19's are only available 9.5" wide. I was talking about 18x10s, which many of us use here.

I'd expect that you'd need a more aggressive pad than HP+ for your goal. And brake cooling ducts are mandatory, IMO, if just for safety at that level of performance.
 
REAL 1 said:
NFSBoss: Very smooth driving! Nice. The Z28 driver cracked under pressure. ;) Looked like too early on the apex for him and lifted mid correction. Not good but...a lot of us have been there truth be told.
Thanks. You'll need better rubber than the PSS. I've run the PSS on track twice this year, the second time a couple of weeks ago when there was the threat of rain. They work well for street tires but can't compare to R comps. I was too early and quick on the gas but I don't think I would have spun with my NT01's. The win was me not hitting the wall!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3T93KqlM-6w

The Stoptech's work great. I spent quite a bit of time talking to both Stoptech and Brembo at SEMA 2013. Both are top quality brake systems and you can't go wrong with either. I went with the Stoptech's because the replacement rings are significantly less than Brembo's. The radial installation design is superior to our stock Brembo's.

IMG_3363_zps4320319e.jpg
IMG_3373_zps5117891b.jpg
 
1,022
99
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Texas
Get the new F14's in 18x11"…they are offset so you can put them on the front and rear with no fitment issues. You could go with 305's square with this setup and they are lighter than the SVE wheels too. Go on Vorshlag's website and check them out. They will be my next set of wheels.

Adam
 
ArizonaBOSS said:
Koni Yellows aren't even in the same game as the Multimatic DSSVs...so you can scratch those off your list right now.
Yes the Z/28 doesn't use MagnaRide suspension it uses the superior DSSV found on F1 cars. You can read about it at the link below. I fully expect some form of these dampers on the GT350R. These did show up on Multimatics two CTSCC BOSS 302 cars mid year and they won the last race of the season.

http://www.multimatic.com/structures_and_suspension/dssv.shtml

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/news/mercedes-amg-c190-shares-z-28-suspension

dssv_damper-sm.jpg
 
So last fall there was a new Camaro 1LE running at Watkins Glen in the same run group I run, which is the fastest group. I spoke to him a little bit about his car. He had had added a supercharger, Z28 suspension, Z28 brakes and the trofeo tires and rims. He thought that it would be as fast or faster than a real Z28. He only ran the first day as the car broke with supercharger belt issues. From what I understand his best time was somewhere around a 2.10. I had ran a 2.09.8 that same time. My car's suspension is basically stock, other than P-springs and rear UCA and LCA's. I still run factory shocks/struts and factory brakes but with better pads/fluid. I think the biggest difference is my rims/tires. I run Forgestar 18x11s all around with 305/660R18 Pirelli P-zero slicks. Tire choice is big!
 
06mach1 said:
Tire choice is HUGE!
Fixed that for you :D The majority of the mods on my Boss primarily make it safer, run cooler, more durable for track duty and look/sound better. The only things (in order of importance) that really make it faster are TIRES, aggressive brake pads, and O/R exhaust. The rest might contribute in a minor way, but all told it might be a 1/2 second.
 

REAL 1

Death smiles at everyone. Army Rangers smile back.
Agree. I was running at Watkins Glenn in October with a 1LE in the X group. Our cars were running about the same times. He left second day due to a brake issue. I know his tires were wider than mine just didn't look closely at them.
 
I was thinking more about this today and looked up the Fastest Laps for Laguna Seca. It's a favorite of the magazines to test there and I've driven there so I'm familiar with the track. John Iles, who's photo is gracing the BMO header at the moment, has run a 1:37.1 there and his car has a full CorteX setup and he also has a CJ intake in his now full T1 race car. Also AJ Aquilante, who won the T1 runoff there in October, ran a 1:34.001 in his modified Boss 302R. The Z/28 ran a 1:37.8 a stock Boss 302 LS ran a 1:39.5.

My point of bringing looking at this is I think it will take a lot to make a street legal Boss as fast as a Z/28 on track. But it's clearly possible it just depends on how much you want to spend. ;D

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna_seca.html
 
158
3
Cool that is a real neat link with all of the different cars...I was surprised to see the gt500 beating the boss...I thought the boss was the better track car and the gt500 more of a drag car?
 
johna said:
Cool that is a real neat link with all of the different cars...I was surprised to see the gt500 beating the boss...I thought the boss was the better track car and the gt500 more of a drag car?
Id like to know how many laps that GT500 ran, guaranteed it started slowing down with heat soak to the supercharger. Its good for 1 fast lap, probably 2nd or 3rd lap of the session, but it won't keep it up for a 20 lap race
 

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